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"Something" has always been "here".

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No matter what you believe or which side of the fence you're on, or if you even have a fence at all, it's mutually agreed "something" has always been "here" (from an eternal perspective). This thought absolutely fries my brain. Now let's talk about "eternity" for a second. Eternity is what, a measure of time right? Eternity is time without end. Now, in order for time to exist, it has to have a starting point to count from. O.K, start counting from that point...but whatever is...already was before that... You could argue it's infinite in both directions. O.K, let's say it is but that still doesn't dismiss the fact that whatever is... already was before in both directions without end at the same time. At that point "now" becomes the beginning of time/eternity, (however fluid that point may be), but it isn't until you're gone that it starts...but it already did...

....and don't even get me started on "space"....


How can anyone possibly consider an infinite thing from a finite plane without frying their own brain?



As if that wasn't terrifying enough, the concept of self awareness has to be the single most terrify thought ever realized by man. Everything else, "is now and ever shall be",...but YOU.... :eeek: 'Cause no matter what you believe, all agree "you" certainly won't be here in 100 years in mortal form...even if you come back as something else.... or even as you, cause even though you are...you're still not...


Seriously though, the aforementioned thoughs are distressing enough to lead one to take their own life.... oooops, wait a minute....:wall:

Am I the only person who thinks about stuff like this?
 
Read Augustine's Confessions - great piece in there on time and eternity.
 
kellysguy said:
Dude, that's 13 books, which to me might as well be eternity...
Click to expand...


Ummm... more like 13 chapters. Chapter 11 is only about 20 pages. You can handle it.
 
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Total Perspective Vortex

https://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Total_Perspective_Vortex

As a Christian I (we) believe that God existed before -and created - time, hence, while there is something before time, it isn't time -since time didn't exist, but only God.

that said, Billy, has anyone pointed out recently that you have too much time on your hands?
 
JPSmit said:
As a Christian I (we) believe that God existed before -and created - time, hence, while there is something before time, it isn't time -since time didn't exist, but only God.
Click to expand...

As a Buddhist, I (we) find the concept of a creator god creates too many problems and contradictions as it tries to explain itself. Creation is a matter of cause and effect. Theism (belief in a creator), proposes that the universe was created by an intelligence that is totally transcendent, and therefore outside the laws of cause and effect. Existence is a matter of endless cycles of birth, death, and rebirth that may or may not culminate in attaining Nirvana (unconscious enlightenment) depending totally on one's self and not on a spiritual entity for direction. Where this cycle came from, where it began, is unimportant; it simply is.
 
To keep this thread light...

JPSmit said:
that said, Billy, has anyone pointed out recently that you have too much time on your hands?
Click to expand...

 
Y'all are getting too much into religion (which wasn't the point and dangerous territory here).

My point was, be it whatever spiritual, scientific or personal, the ground you're standing on and everything else either was created by something that was always here or its was always here on it's own.


BustedKnuckles said:
Where this cycle came from, where it began, is unimportant; it simply is.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it simply is...forever...no matter how you slice it. The fact that time itself exists means that eternity in and of itself exists no matter what else happens. It was just a simple statement that no matter if you believe: "creation", "the big bang" or just the fact that matter can neither be created nor destroyed something has "always been".

Mick, "too much time" yeah...eternity. :eeek: :jester:

Seriously though, it's not a matter of too much time on my hands. I think about stuff whether or not I'm doing something. Matter of fact, the more I do something else the easier it is for me to think about things like that. The only time I don't think about other things is when I'm driving or attempting to play guitar, otherwise my brain is always on. I think the best when I sleep. My mind is free of itself so I'm able to think about things I otherwise wouldn't be able to. Same thing with doing something else, my brain gets bored so I think about multiple things at once.


BTW, "I can kill you with my brain". :jester:
 
Buckaroo Bonzai said it best.......
 
JPSmit said:
As a Christian I (we) believe that God existed before -and created - time, hence, while there is something before time, it isn't time -since time didn't exist, but only God.
Click to expand...

I've never seen anything about starting a clock. What "day" was that on? "In the beginning" means just that, it doesn't mean time, just the starting point of that particular project. There is no way to extrapolate something eternal without the measure of time or numbers. Whether it be one or three, the fact that "it" can be counted means time existed even then "before" anything else happened....and even if it didn't in your model, "something" did and will "always", which is a measure of time. By your own theory, "It" was always here.

If you rule out "It", then "that" was always here, "is now and ever shall be" no matter how you slice it.

No matter what model an individual chooses, "something" always came from "nothing" 'cause it's always been so it didn't.
 
kellysguy said:
I've never seen anything about starting a clock. What "day" was that on?
Click to expand...

Genesis 1:5 - DAY/ NIGHT - no day, no night, no time
 
JPSmit said:
Genesis 1:5 - DAY/ NIGHT - no day, no night, no time
Click to expand...

No day, no night 'cause no sun but it don't say nothing about time. The sun doesn't have anything to do with time in and of itself, just how WE measure it here, on this planet and there are stars older than ours.

Like I said before, even if you start the clock then, eternity still runs on forever and "something" still will always be in any given model.
 
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."

Quote from William Blake's The Marriage of Heaven and ****
 
martx-5 said:
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."

Quote from William Blake's The Marriage of Heaven and ****
Click to expand...


Exactly.

I think Mickey might think I'm bucking for his job. :jester:
 
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "

- Hamlet (1.5.166-7)

We've been trying to explain our world since time began. Still workin' on it.

Tom
 
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