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Some Thoughts on Rotisserie Restorations

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Roscoe,
Kudos to you, sir. i would love to see some pics so that i can file them away in my "options" folder for the day my BN2 sees the road again.

and lest we forget that non-origonality still pays... and well. just look at the non-origonal Kurt Tanners that sold at Barret-Jackson this past year.
 
The word "restore" has several definitions. The definition applicable best to vintage automobiles is to "bring back to original condition." I doubt seriously that there are many, if any, truly "restored" vintage Healeys. We can approximate or approach restoration, but in truth, "original condition" is practically unobtainable. The problem is that the word is convenient and noble. Mostly what we do is, indeed, just careful repair and refinish. But how would it sound on E-Bay or at Barrett-Jackson to boast of of a ground up, nuts and bolts, rotisserie, repair and refinish? There is a standard for measuring originality, the Concours guidelines, accompanied by unbiased judging and assignment of points (actually deduction of points from perfection) according to the guidelines. Interestingly, however, even the guidelines do not require points reduction for many non-original modifications. So even by the best standards available, true "restoration" is not required to achieve the highest rating. Not sure this really adds to the discussion, other than to illustrate that there are no absolutes in this pursuit. It's a hobby for most, business for some, and fun for all.
 
If originality is the goal, I don't understand why a Heritage Certificate isn't a required part of Concours judging.
 
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/savewave.gif

Cutlass, I have said many times,History began the day I bought the car and will end the day I sell it---Keoke- /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif

"The word restore has several definitions": Restore; To put or bring back into existance or use?
 
SHG said:
Keoke said:
What has this to do with "Rotisserie Restorations ?
Click to expand...

Keoke,

You know how stuff gets a little off track, so now its about every little thing. I started this because of the cars for sale claiming to be "restored" that were clearly worked but poorly restored.

Now, it's getting a bit defensive, even though it started on a different subject. But Anthony hasn't even gotten here yet, so who knows where this is heading.
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OH! 7777's, he been here already talkin sumpin about 55 chevies an doctors and other things but I don't know how clear it was.---Keoke- /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
 
There is a feature on this very thing in the July issue of Healey Marque magazine: two very comparable Healeys sold at very different prices.

Healey prices are currently all over the board, having been thrown into chaos by recent auction results, including the record-setting $231,000 for a 100M achieved in April (see feature in the June issue of Healey Marque.)
 
SHG said:
Getting back to the point, compare these 2 BJ8s for sale on ebay. Both are being sold as rotisserie restorations:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ready-for...1QQcmdZViewItem

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Aust...1QQcmdZViewItem

The second one is very pretty, but...
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Yep SHG, the restorers took some liberties with their creations. However, both cars are very nice in my opinion and rectifying the non original, or don't like bits would not be too difficult. OTOH, I doubt if anyone would be put out seen driving either car.---Keoke
 
shg, see there ya go, talk about making things non original, the first pict. in your comparison what happened? i guess the guy removed the roll up windows that are often associated with the 63bj7 and the 64 and up bj8, apples and peaches,no wonder the prices are so different! now you can see how easy it is to make things non-original, perhaps a slight mistake ? we cant be perfect all the time, with such a comparison no wonder you and keoke could understand my simple answer to your question! an /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thankyousign.gif
 
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/savewave.gif 7777's
Now why you be getting on to our friend SHG. He did not even know you had been there until I told him so. I just tried to summarise what you said but I was not sure which one of the many questions that evolved in this post you were addressing.---Keoke- /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cowboy.gif
 
Well SHG it seems you've struck a common nerve among us Healely owners/users/restorers. I can only speak for myself and will. Originally I wanted to do a complete "restoration" on my car, meaning concours. So I purchased the concours guide. Yes, I do reccomend any and all reference material, but I've found all lacking in some areas. Very soon into the restoration I had a tough question to ask, "do I intend to drive this car?" And if so, how far and to what extent? That's when I decided to say, like "Tony Soprano", "Forget this". I used the original hose clips, developed leaks where ever they were used and then replaced with worm clips. Looking at some very original untestored cars I noticed worm type clamps were replaced very soon after being driven. Bottom line, and sorry about the long reply, if you're restoring a trailer queen "good for you" but don't plan on driving it.
 
anthony7777 said:
shg, see there ya go, talk about making things non original, the first pict. in your comparison what happened? i guess the guy removed the roll up windows that are often associated with the 63bj7 and the 64 and up bj8, apples and peaches,no wonder the prices are so different! now you can see how easy it is to make things non-original, perhaps a slight mistake ? we cant be perfect all the time, with such a comparison no wonder you and keoke could understand my simple answer to your question! an /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thankyousign.gif


Anthony, If you are refering to the blue car I think it is a bt7. Notice the side location of the shifter . This car was built in 61 and titled a 62. Also the doors and shroud would be differnt if it was a bj7 with the windows removed.
Looks like they did a pretty nice job to me.BR2
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We seem to have some confusion about the subject, which isn't surprising since this turned from its original point to attack/defense of what people here have chosen to do with their cars.

Once again, I'm talking about people who are SELLING Healey as "FULL RESTORATIONS" that have pointless, stupid stuff wrong. Things such as the wrong color fan cowl, the wrong color/type of spark plug wires, a completely new interior in a color that was never offered. As to the interior, if you want fuschia for yourself, that's great, but don't tell a buyer that its a restored Healey. It may be a restored Healey with non-original interior, but it just isn't restored.

This has NOTHING to do with anyone here making a choice that they would prefer to install a pert, or go neg earth, or a Texas cooler fan, or any other personal choice in dealing with their car so that they can drive it, show it, enjoy it, be buried in it, whatever. When you do it for yourself, that's a completely different thing.

But if your a pro shop and a customer pays you to do a "rotiserie restoration" and you install a green fan, then it's a bad restoration unless the customer was told it was wrong and decided to go for it anyway.

And that's all I have to say about.
 
Whether it be at Barrett-Jackson, off of E-Bay, or elsewhere; if a person is purchasing at Rotisserie Restoration and expects it to be Concours correct, he had better be pretty darn knowledgable. The old saying applies, "Let the buyer beware". Personally I would not expect a "rotisserie restoration" to be a concours correct car, and I don't think that is implied.
Interesting at the Nelson, B. C. event last summer (many of you attended), there were over 100 absolutely beautiful Austin Healeys. Almost all of them were driven hundreds of miles, some over a thousand miles to get there. Only two entered the Concours judging.
 
Question:
Allowing normal market forces to dictate value, what would be worth more - a restored Healey that is 100% original right down to the paint formulation, wires, etc. or a beautifully restored Healey that has modern upgrades such as clear coat, worm clamps, spin-on oil filter, etc.? Same model, same color, trim, etc. oh, and both cars were restored on a rotisserie.
 
I'd have to go with the restored car having more monetary value. Of course, a perfectly restored Healey will have to have the usual amount of imperfections that came from the factory. What is usually done is "restoring" the cars to better than originality, in terms of fit, finish, etc.
 
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