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So, when is a Triumph not a Triumph anymore?

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tomshobby

tomshobby

Yoda
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Just asking a question, not making judgement on anyone.

When I drove Triumphs years ago they were new cars. I changed from original the radio on my TR4, wheels on my GT6, and various tire brands on both. Also oversize pistons and liners in the 4 and Mallory coils on both.

Not sure if the complete body on the 4 counts. It replaced one that was altered in an attempt at flight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Now it seems that virtually every part of these cars are changed by one or more owners.

I have been working out plans for some component and suspension changes. Maybe even some engine mods. And all of this changes in degree in my mind day by day.

My question is this. Is there some point where these cars cease being Triumphs? Or, is this point so blurred and personal that it cannot really be even loosely defined? Or is that more the history of these cars?

This question probably will evoke some passion. I only ask that responses not be judgemental and only the opinion of an owner for his or her own car.
 
imnsho - non-triumph engine or complete (different style) rebody. All else is fair game.

Let the fun begin/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I think this is only a real issue for those who want to win a concours event - for everything else, I think it is the owners taste and interest that matters. In some cases, that will help the car value, in some cases it'll hurt.

For me "to each his own" works best and for all those that are doing engine, tranny, differential swaps I still consider those cars to be Triumphs. However if I ever see a TR6 with a big airfoil bolted on the boot, well I might just have to reconsider!

Randy
 
When there is a complete suspension replacement-conversion for the front and back and a complete replacement-conversion for the Lucas electrical and wiring!!!!????
 
Practically speaking, I think it depends mostly on the commission number (VIN) and what it says on the title or other paperwork that goes with the car. If you can stuff an Allison V-16 and Hydramatic into a TR6, it's still a TR6 (albeit one with a LOT of grunt and probably very little room for driver or passenger)! If you then build a new chassis for the above, and then rebody that chassis....well.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
"Is there some point where these cars cease being Triumphs?"

I can't answer that question, but I assume there is such a point. However, in my mind, it is irrelevent. If my Triumph is modified to the point that most folks will no longer consider it a Triumph, then so be it. Whatever it is, if I'm happy with it, then all is well with the world. Those who don't like it just need to get over it and get on with their lives.

I didn't buy my TR6 because it was a Triumph. I would have bought it if it were a Honda or a Toyota. I bought it because I like it, whatever it is, and I knew there were changes to be made to it to make it suit me even more.
 
The reason asked the question is to see how different people feel about their own car. There is no right or wrong answer in this, just curious how owners see their own car and their hobby. Personally, I like differences because that makes the hobby more interesting.

I think the most boring thing in the world would be to go to a gathering of Triumphs and see them all in perfect "left the factory" condition.
 
personally, i find v-8 engine swaps and such to be no longer triumph, or even minor things like brake replacement and diff replacement (to toyota, or what have you). i'd like it to be kept in the family (triumph). if your spit isn't fast enough, drop in a gt6 or tr6. other than that, small convenience additions or subtractions are welcome, like electronic ignition and new starters.

but like it was stated a couple posts prior, whatever makes you happy. in the end, it's your car, and if you want something different, why not have it? unless of course it's way out of budget...
 
[ QUOTE ]
personally, i find v-8 engine swaps and such to be no longer triumph, or even minor things like brake replacement and diff replacement (to toyota, or what have you). i'd like it to be kept in the family (triumph).

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Triumph did have it's own in house V-8 (the three litre from the Stag) and the Rover V-8 was a cousin during the British Leyland years. A kissing cousin in the TR8. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Where does the family stop. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
I agree with the opinion that if it isn't being used for concurs then who cares as long as your happy with what your driving. Does this mean if I remove the chevy engine from my Camaro and drop in a pontaic engine that its no longer a Chevy? No, it just means that its not a stock Chevy Camaro anymore. Just my 2 cents worth even though the wife will only give me a penny for my thoughts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
There are really two questions to answer:
The first is: at what point in a restoration is it no longer a real Triumph. Personally, I believe that even if all but one part are from a restoration supplier from Moss, it's still a Triumph. If it is true to specs, it is what it is.

Now -- there's: At what point does a modified car cease to be a Triumph. Basically, the answer in my mind is when the inherent design no longer affects the dynamics. The easiest way to explain is that any type of sihlouette car (like NASCAR, where the body looks like something, but underneath uses no factory-spec parts) it isn't a real car.

But if you just stuff in a big engine, new tranny and rear in a TR, it still has all the issues of a TR. If you replace the frame with tube, swap out the steering, the seats, the gauges and fundamentally change the body to improve performance, then it isn't really a Triumph.
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif mostly....

Grafting a different body (as per common kit car practice) does significantly alter what you see, even if the base remains a VW (or whatever) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

If it stops looking like a Triumph I'd say its well on its way to being something else since the visual identity is lost.

Grafting a Triumph body onto a different chassis is similarly creating a false visual identity for a car.

But in the grand scheme of things even the most heavily modified (uprated suspensions, fuel systems, modified engines, fancier interior, etc.) cars are still basically Triumphs.
 
I like the shag carpet reply but I agree with Sam B. concerning restoration. Although... I have been through three brake light stop switches and have gotten real tired of pulling that front right tire on and off to replace them so I installed a fancy new style push button switch off the master cyl. brake pushrod... There I've admitted it! not original anymore! Then theres that Hayden electric fan that seems to go on everytime I get stuck at a toll booth! sounds like a vacuum cleaner going off and scares the out of me every time. Then theres the back up lights that some inspection guy told the previous owner he needed to pass inspection. Other than that I think it's still a Triumph.

Finally stopped raining
Harry
 
Ah, so what about the Doretti, Dove GT, or Bond Equipe name a few? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Triumph sold it's engines and drivetrains to many car builders. Some I think are, others maybe not.
A few years back, at Triumphest in San Diego there were a couple of Dorettis. I personally felt they belonged. On the last day, a Spitfire showed up with a 427 Chevy. Nothing on the car was Triumph except for the flared body and badges. While it was a well done swap, for me it wasn't a Triumph. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif
For me it boils down to this, if the changes are done in the "spirit of Coventry", its still a Triumph. I have a love for any LBC, its their quirkyness, their lack of perfection if you will that gives them their character and soul.
The owners also add to their cars charm. From my experience they are very supportive and encouraging, willing to share stories and help where needed, whether with advise or assistance.

Cheers
Rob

PS I'd take a decent driver any day over a trailer queen!
 
I think the year was 1990, maybe, and VTR had flown Ken Richardson to Boulder, CO for the national convention. It was around noon after the autocross, back at the hotel and people were getting their cars ready for the car show. And there was Mr. Richardson milling around looking at the hardware. I grabbed him faster than the wedding guest in the 'Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner' and peppered him with questions for the next fifteen minutes. He suffered me graciously, but one response here is most appropriate. His take on originality was that concours was 'okay', but if your not trying to improve the car over time what's the point. He was much more in favor of seeing a well thought out modification. Of course he was the competition manager. If only I had gotten his autograph.
Tom Lains
TS8651
TS58107
 
Dorettis are Dorettis, not Triumphs...BUT I would welcome them at a Triumph club event, just like I would welcome Deloreans in a Lotus club event, or a Jensen Interceptor at a Mopar show.
 
If Cecil Kimber had not "modded out" a Morris sedan, there would be no MGs.
If Carroll Shelby hadn't "hopped up" an AC Ace, the Cobra would never have existed.

But there have been some dreadful hack-jobs too (we have a 350 Chevy-powered Sprite in my area that is a mess).

One new term that is used is "Resto-Mod", where cars are updated with better brakes, electronic igntion, etc. I think the idea is to update, but retain the basic "spirit" of the car.
 
[ QUOTE ]
shag carpet..

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

I have been enjoying the comments in this thread!

It seems that it is the spirit of being Triumph that is the common link between us all. And that that spirit is very much personally defined. Some of it by memories of the past and some by visions of the future.

I wonder how much was changed from original on the TR6 that Paul Newman raced. But everyone proudly recognized it as a Triumph.

I remember Triumphs being made to go as fast as possible within the constraints given. Whether it was engine size and configuration rules or simply how big of an engine could be stuffed inside, and sometimes even when they don't entirely fit inside.

That is one of the things I love about this forum. That being the diversity and willingness to improve these little cars. Whether they are restored to "original" or "improved" condition.

When I saw TRED's video it gave me a warm feeling to see one of these cars run that fast and I could translate that to how it might be to line up on the street next to some SA in a hopped up Honda and leave rubber and gravel all over his front!
 
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