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Smog test: Round #1

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Bret

Bret

Yoda
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smile.gif

The good news is: I just finished the first go round at the (California) Smog Test Station and am happy to report that my 78B passed all emissions testing with flying colors. Look for more info on this latter.

frown.gif

Now the bad news: She failed the “overall” test for two reasons:
1) The rocker cover oil filler cap leaks.
2) Ignition timing was only 5 degrees before TDC the factory settings. ???

OK now I’d like to do some venting. First of all I can understand the oil filler cap. This is a minor thing and have already ordered a new one. The second issue regarding the ignition timing is wrong. Confused about the failure I asked them what data they used to determine this. I was told that they use the engine data tag under the hood. The data tag clearly states that the timing should be set to 10 degrees BTDC @ 1500 RPM (not idle), and those numbers matche everything I’ve seen in both of my MGB manuals.

Turns out the smog check technician/mechanic (loose terms) was checking the timing at idle (850RPM +/- 100) and not the stated 1500RPM. While my car would have failed anyway for the oil filler cap, I am a little unnerved by the quality of the personnel manning these smog check only sites.

What a joke!
jester.gif


Bret

[ 03-03-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
 
Sounds like there's a need for maple syrup and feathering to me! Tar would be politicaly incorrect;o)
 
If you statically set it at 10' BTDC, you should be OK!! Now, up here we still use tar!! Hot tar!!
blush.gif
) As far as the oil cap leaking, I hope the new one cures it! It is possible that, if it has blowby, that compression is leaking by the rings and pressureizing the oil pan!! If that is the case, take it in cold!!
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bret:
I am a little unnerved by the quality of the personnel manning these smog check only sites.
<hr></blockquote>

That is precisely one of the reasons I was bent out of shape with Virginia sneaking the new "rolling road" tests into the mix a few years ago. I left the state before I was forced to embark on another era of tests, but I was told not only would I have to drive my car to an inspection station and wait in line an hour for a 15-20 minute "safety" (another joke) test, but I would be forced to go to another testing station, hand over my car and leave it with the station personnel for awhile, then get it back. They said I wouldn't be allowed to watch or be involved with the procedure.

I really don't know the details, nor how they're doing with the new system. I do know that when Maryland imposed this system on people there were widespread reports of damaged vehicles and appeals made due to what owners felt were arbitrary and poorly made decisions on the part of the "technicians" (ahem).

How much do these tests cost by the way?

Good luck on getting the car certified, let us know how it finally comes out.
 
Originally posted by Bret:
[QB]
smile.gif

While my car would have failed anyway for the oil filler cap, I am a little unnerved by the quality of the personnel manning these smog check only sites.

What a joke!
jester.gif


Bret


You can say that again! My sisters and I inherited our mother's l980 Oldsmobile Cutlass, which is in very good condition, so we plan on keeping it. At the last smog test only exam, the technician put down the wrong engine size and ran the test. It passed the emissions test, but failed a visual inspection - a couple of hoses crossed or missing. Later in the week, after noticing the error, I called the technician to tell him he had put the wrong engine size down and the test should probably be done over or at least corrected in order to compare the emissions from the car with the state's emission standards for the correct engine size. I realized it failed the visual, but the correct information regarding the engine should probably be transmitted to Sacramento before I proceeded with any repairs. Who knows, it might even fail with the correct engine size, because it has a smaller engine than what he had put down. He told me either way, it didn't matter, and if I wanted the information changed, I would have to pay for another test. I couldn't believe it. I told him I disagreed, we went back and forth, but he wouldn't budge...

Two weeks later, when the inspector from the State Board of Consumer Affairs called me in response to my complaint form, he said to meet him at the shop. Bottom line - I got the retest for free, the correct information was transmitted to Sacramento, and the shop was cited for several violations after the inspector took a look around and observed the "technician" at work.

In a way this hassle worked out well for me because I was beginning to have major doubts about finding a competent repair center after going to several to get an estimate to repair the hoses on the car. I mentioned this to the inspector, saying I know he probably wasn't supposed to recommend a repair center, but I had no idea where to go to get the repairs done at a reputable shop. He said no, he wasn't supposed to make recommendations, but he had never had a complaint about a certain shop straight up the street near the railroad tracks. They did a great job on the repairs, and the car passed with flying colors and extremely low emission levels.

Good luck with the rest of your test!

Oh, and sorry for jamming up the MG Forum with information on an Oldsmobile from healeygal, but I am part owner of a '63 MGB!

[ 03-03-2003: Message edited by: healeygal ]</p>
Click to expand...
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by aerog:


How much do these tests cost by the way?

Good luck on getting the car certified, let us know how it finally comes out.<hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the encouragement.

Here in the Peoples Republic of California - this test normally costs over $50.00 for the actual test & certification. But to their credit - once I pointed out the mistake regarding how to read the ignition timing, I was given a break & told that because of the mix-up I wouldn’t be charged. But I will have to pay the fee once I replace the leaking oil filler cap and retest.

So theoretically once this is done I should pass smog.

Bret

[ 03-03-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Lloyd:
If you statically set it at 10' BTDC, you should be OK!! Now, up here we still use tar!! Hot tar!!
blush.gif
) As far as the oil cap leaking, I hope the new one cures it! It is possible that, if it has blowby, that compression is leaking by the rings and pressureizing the oil pan!! If that is the case, take it in cold!!<hr></blockquote>

Knowing my luck with these guys thus far, if I set the timing mark at idle (850RPM +/-100), they’d turn around & check it at 1500RPMs. So I’ll leave it for now.

Gary? I am curious about your comments regarding “blowby”. Right now I don’t see any “pronounced” leakage until the engine has been running for quite some time and fully warmed up. Once this happens I start seeing more of the blowby leakage from the cap. Now the cap has (to the best of my recollection) has never made what I would call a tight fit. So just incase the oil filler cap isn’t the cause I will take your advice and take it in cold for it’s next test.

One other thing. I noticed that my oil pressure decreases to below 50PSI at an idle when the engine is fully warmed up. Pressure would increase to normal as the engine RPMs increased and would hold fine, so I figured that this was associated to old & weak gaskets. This wouldn’t seem (in my mind) to lend itself to compression getting by the piston rings. What do you think?

Anyway I seem to remember seeing something about “blowby” leakage from the oil filler cap could be corrected by enlarging the orifice of valve cover breather tube. Anybody every try this?

Bret
 
I think I may have hit on something!! There are a couple of things that can cause the cap leakage!! My thought was that 'compression' is getting past the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. I am just now thinking that it may just be a plugges PCV or the engine ventilation system may be clogged!! I will find you a link if you need it!!
As far as the oil pressure, that is a different story all together!! It was recommended from the factory to change the rod bearings every 50,000 miles!! It is fairly simple, but not a walk in the park!! If you want, we can go thru a bit of the procedure!! GOOD LUCK!!!!
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Lloyd:
I think I may have hit on something!! There are a couple of things that can cause the cap leakage!! My thought was that 'compression' is getting past the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. I am just now thinking that it may just be a plugges PCV or the engine ventilation system may be clogged!! I will find you a link if you need it!!
<<SNIP>>!! GOOD LUCK!!!!<hr></blockquote>

Like you it seems I too try to eliminate as many variables as possible.

So prior to taking my car in for it’s test – I went through the ventilation system to check for blockages. Using compressed air – I checked & cleared most of the ventilation lines. Any that failed or leaked was replaced. This procedure involved “completely” disconnecting each hose (one at a time) and checking to see that it was clear. Likewise I removed connections going to my absorption canisters and checking to see if they allowed airflow without too much restriction. And after all of that and replacing the few leaky lines I found – everything seems to be fine now. Save that loosely fitting oil filler cap.

As for the low oil pressure at idle. If you think it’s not related, then I will wait to address that at a later date.

Can you think of anything I missed?
confused.gif


Bret

[ 03-03-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
 
Just to dig, I just registered the Escort for the year. Over the internet. No inspection at all anymore. So long as they get paid the taxes you can tag a cardboard box.

Good luck.

MattP
 
Something else, while I was looking at the “cheap’ie” oil filler cap last night. I noticed that it makes a weak loose fitting seal when fully closed, between the lip of the valve cover opening & the rubber sealing ring on the oil filler cap. In my view the rubber seal needs to be about two to three times a thick, for a proper seal.

With this in mind the “tinker side” of me decided to see what I could do to tighten this seal up. First I pulled the rubber ring off of the cap. Then using some “flexible” gasket sealer, I placed a ¼ inch bead under the lip of he cap. After allowing it to set for about 15 to 20 minutes, I re-attached the rubber ring.

This looks like it’s going to give me a lot better seal. I know it sounds kind of Polish. But hey, whatever works right?

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Bret
hammer.gif


[ 03-04-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Lloyd:
As far as the oil pressure, that is a different story all together!! It was recommended from the factory to change the rod bearings every 50,000 miles!! It is fairly simple, but not a walk in the park!! If you want, we can go thru a bit of the procedure!! GOOD LUCK!!!!<hr></blockquote>

Gary:

I've never seen that posted before. Is the 50,000 mile quote for all B engines?
 
Sorry buddy!! That is what Tom Bedenbaugh, one of the best MG mechanics that I know told me, so I take it a s gospel truth!! He said that they are supposed to be changed every 50,000 as normal maintenance!! To see his site, I am sure Chuck is linked!! One heck of a knowledgable guy!!
 
i finally started my midget without the air pump today. sounds like a brand new car. and its 65 outside so top down time
 
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