Slight Vauxhall Latest - and a question

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

There might be a very little resistance from a new seal even if well lubricated. I think the thrust bearing though would be like the mains, really no resistance other than the lube. I really think I would want to open it back up and look for any problems especially since you said it tightened up after the last main was torqued. Better that than destroy it first time you fire it up. I don't remember all that you have done but it could be wrong bearings or maybe needs to be line bored. When I had the Prefect motor rebuilt several years ago, I had to replace one main cap which required line boring. The shop bored to the wrong diameter and had to change to other bearings, Taunus of some sort.

The more I look, the more I think it is fine - it is very cold out there and the lube is thick and I suspect that is the issue. I am almost ready to install the pistons but keep forgetting to purchase plastigauge till the stores are closed - then I remember. doh!

So, tonight I was working under the car - back to removing undercoating. And, realized once again that these cars are made like cr*p! I can't believe how many spots there are where folded metal, sloppy factory fit and poor welds have left spots for mud and moisture to accumulate - it is no wonder these things all rusted away. Tonight I used a wire brush to clean away undercoat and ended up with a couple of spots where I was just gouging out more and more dried mud - which brings me to my second observation. If I had spent 9k at a bodyshop and they didn't even clean the mud off the bottom, it would get ugly!

BTW question for tonight - do wire wheels get dull? or do they just wear away?

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

So, very little to report - above freezing today though! Have managed to get the rear axle off and the springs off, still trying to get the short pieces of the 4 link suspension off - though the floor is wet under the car due to the ice in the driveway redirecting the melting water into the garage instead of down the driveway.


Not worth a picture of an axle next to the car - but, in a previous post I mentioned the distributor being rebuilt. It is in the mail on the way here but, in the meantime, here is what I learned.


1. In addition to the clean and rebuild, Jeff Schlemmer (Advance Distributor) re-curves the distributor for today's gas - as opposed to 60's gas which was apparently better (and leaded) He also says it is much better now as it was throwing all the advance at the low end (whatever that means.)


2. He has worked on many many distributors, and this ones housing is unique. The guts on the other hand are common to basically every Delco distributor of the era.


So, without further ado - at least two pictures:

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Oh, and, next question - IIRC you assemble the head gasket on the Midget with the gaskets dry. On the Vauxhall they call for gasket sealer - will Permatex Black do?

 

[DNK]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

JP- That drive off the cam?

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

JP- That drive off the cam?

No, There is an auxiliary shaft that runs the distributor and the oil pump. Did I mention this is an Overhead Cam engine?

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Well, just a short Aaarrgghhh sort of an update.


Spent some time starting to insert the pistons today. Knowing that cleanliness is next to godliness, I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned, bores, grooves etc, etc. Got it in and plastigauged the piston - of course if you don't insert the bearing, the plastigauge doesn't compress. Anyways, fixed that, sorted it, and got the piston installed properly. Flipped the engine to install the next piston and a bunch of "junk" from the block fell out and landed in the cylinder of the newly installed piston. At which point I decided to walk away until tomorrow at which point the piston comes out and we start cleaning again. As an aside, I had very angry thoughts about the shop that boiled the engine. Ah well, that will get cleaned also.


Oh, good news, my rebuilt distributor arrived today - looks gorgeous!


Finally, in the absence of engine reconstruction photos, here are some connecting rod bearing photos. One of the things I love about NOS parts is the original packaging. It amazes me that something that was made when I was seven or eight years old is still around, still in original packaging and still available to be connected with someone who needs it. There is something very tactile about all of this:


So, here is pic one. The box it came in - love the label.





and then the packaging each individual bearing half came in:





which then looked like this:





and which then unwrapped like this:





The grease was amazingly thick! and then cleaned up like this:





to be used to bring a Viva back to life again. wonderful!

 

[PAUL161]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

The conversion should be good. There is a reason no one uses rope seals in engines any longer. I'm with Nial though a little Hylomar is never a bad idea.

Walter, Not that it should have any influence here, but when I rebuilt the engine in my old 1955 Ford tractor, I replaced the rope seal at the recommendation of a New Holland dealer, New Holland took over the Ford tractor division of Ford Motors. The new type seal leaked like crazy regardless how it was installed. Pulling the engine back out, not easy on a tractor as it has to be split in to, I then went back to an original type rope seal and it hasn't leaked a drop in 7 years. If their installed right, they won't leak. I did put the the new type seals in our 72 MGB and they worked out very well, no leaks! PJ

 

[waltesefalcon]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Paul, thats the rub, installing one right. Too many of the mechanics out there today don't know how to put a rope seal in, and if you don't have at least a tiny amount of experience with them they are easy to mess up then they leak like sieves.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Quick update. In my previous post I mentioned crud falling out of the block. took it off the stand, set it up vertically, whacked the heck out of it with a (dead blow) hammer. then took air to it then shook it around - and this came out! grrr.



But, it seems good to go now.

Started installing pistons and all went well, except one - after which the crank would no longer turn. Tried it in multiple cylinders (the pistons are not numbered so far as I can tell) with the same results. Finally, friend Mark came over - and actually was his son Colin (yeah Colin!) who noticed the really tiny numbers stamped in the side of the con rods (our excuse is that we are getting old and eyes getting weak - sheesh) - and that two of the caps were mismatched with the rods - once they were sorted, we were good to go. So, they are roughly together now and, this afternoon should have final assembly (rings spaced etc. etc.)

As an aside, this is the second time I have brought an engine to have work done and had it come back with parts mismatched or mislabelled (and I could have mismatched them myself) This really isn't about blaming the shops (there were two and both reputable) as much as to remind myself that when it comes to these cars, the more you can do (and label!) yourself the better. Among other things I have a hunch that most shops assume you will be replacing every part - not understanding that with older engines, parts need to be reused as they can't always be replaced)

hopefully pics at 11

 

[waltesefalcon]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Rookie mistake. I'm just giving you a hard time, it good you were able to get it sorted so easily.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Actually kind of a rookie mistake in that it is only the second engine I have ever built. But in my defense the print was really really small.

 

[waltesefalcon]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

JP, when I knock a piston out of its bore I always put its cap back on its rod. It is an easy way to avoid the problem you encountered. I also lay out all internal pieces out on a bench in the correct order, e.g. all the lifters laid out in a row from cylinder one through whatever.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

JP, when I knock a piston out of its bore I always put its cap back on its rod. It is an easy way to avoid the problem you encountered. I also lay out all internal pieces out on a bench in the correct order, e.g. all the lifters laid out in a row from cylinder one through whatever.

As do I - (or thought I had) however, it has also been through two other sets of hands so it may not have been me at all. Anyways, it's correct now - phew

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

So, just spent a couple of hours under the Vauxhall. Managed to use some heat to persuade the brake line clips off. Also, got the last bolts out of the final two bars of the four link suspension. This, a major victory as they were stubborn! Took liberal lashings of weasel pee, and heat and a 2 foot breaker bar - and I still pretty much ruined the bolts - in fact only managed to get one side off with vice grips. Therein lies my problem. The nut is off. The bolt spins but doesn't come out. My superior powers of deduction tell me that the bolt is frozen to the steel insert inside the bushing. Unfortunately I can't get good access to the bolt to pound it out. So, and ideas? I have limited access and the bolt is spinning.

Now, I do have an idea - it involves sheering off the head of the bolt, putting some washers on the other end, adding a nut and then two more - lock the two and see if I draw out the bolt by tightening the bolt against the washers. My only fear is that if it doesn't work it might be worse.

So, I decided to stop and think a bit - and throw it open for ideas.

thanks all

 

[Harry_Flatters]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Hello JP, it's Sean from the DSG - haven't been here in a while!

Just wanted to pick up on a few points in your thread.

On the replacement for the rope oil seal, are you using the one we're using that comes in two halves and superglues round? If so, have a look at Chris Rogers' thread about it on our forum, I think he details sealing it to the housing. I wouldn't get hung up on getting Hylomar though. Incidentally, in a lot of places Vauxhall used to use Wellseal jointing compound, as GM did over there, and it's still available.

You don't want your thrust bearings / faces too tight same as you don't want your mains overly tight. The specified crank end float in the manual should give you the clearances.

Sealant on the head gasket depends rather on what gasket you have. Gasket technology has moved on a lot since the Vauxhall manuals were written; a lot of the head gaskets now available for the Viva do not need sealant (and in fact the gasket will blow if you use sealant) - don't forget the manual was written 40 years ago. Check with the gasket supplier. Often over here the non-sealant gaskets are dark grey in colour, while the sealant types tend to be old stock and tend to be light in colour. If in doubt, leave it out.

DTV used to caution against too much advance on the distributor to avoid high speed detonation - I think a maximum of 34 degrees total advance was recommended, though that would be for engines which were higher compression than your standard one.

Are the bolts you're having trouble with on the diagonal suspension links and are they at the axle end or the body end? It sounds as though you are right about the bolt being frozen into the bush insert though. Be careful, the brackets and arms are fairly thin. You may find that beating it out with a hammer does more harm than good. If you have a hot spanner, heating the bolt may help, as might trying to work penetrating oil in over a period of time.

Excuse me if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here!

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

I promise, this granny has no idea how to suck eggs! (actually I do but that's another story.)

Thanks for all this - yes the replacement for the rope seal is the one you describe - and I did find hylomar.

I am happy with the clearances - all within spec.

In terms of the gaskets, thanks for this VERY MUCH - I will check the colours.

The bolt giving me trouble was on the body end - I thought and thought and finally realized I had bought a cheap reciprocating saw last summer - got a couple of metal blades and it cut the bolt like butter - especially helpful as I could get the blade into the bracket without damaging it.

So, now just to get at it - unfortunately (fortunately!) the weather is nice and SWMBO has gardening plans combined with driving the MG - will keep you posted and, thanks for the advice!

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

It has been a very long time between updates - so, some quick Vauxhall Christmas Math

Managed to get some time in and, the weather cooperated some.


Here is the math:


Take these:





add elbow grease, for at least 18 months (it is after all the most boring job ever)


equals:





plus:





discard the above and add:





and you get:





finally we can begin hanging pieces back on.

 

[JPSmit]

Vauxhall up-dates - getting back on track

Quick Update

So, not quite fully assembled, but, here are a couple of engine shots - I am pleased so far.








cheers all!

 

[waltesefalcon]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

Looking good JP.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: Slight Vauxhall up-date - and a question

So, tonight's progress - rear brakes! Only one side (had to get my daughter from the bus) but, I am thrilled.


Started with





(OK opposite side - I forgot to take the first pic)


then added Slave & Adjuster





and shoes and clips





and finally drum





and of course shinyish wheel





and from the back:





I am pleased.


and the best part, all the clips, springs etc. are an exact fit from a Spitfire! Much easier to source than a Vauxhall! (Oh and, I have to say, in many ways, Vauxhalls are much more obvious than Midgets - typically there is a right way and wrong way things go together - like brake pads, with the Midget you can install them upsidedown, don't ask me how I know)