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TR5/TR250 Should I buy this TR250 tonight?

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alwaysride

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There's a TR250 for sale near my home and I'm tempted.
The problem is, it has a V8, an automatic transmission and a different rear end.
The car looks great, but it was repainted recently and I don't know how much bondo is in it. On the rear fenders they filled in the seams between the fender and the deck!
More negatives: The frame is weak near where the right front wishbone mounts, and the car does not brake evenly. The rear brakes lock up when you stomp on them because there is so much weight up front and so little in the back.

It has a new raditaor, new top, new master cyclinder, Holley 4 bbl carb, new gas tank and again, it looks great.
I'd have to fix the frame and put some kind of portioning valve in the brakes before I could drive it safely.

The price is $4500.
What do you think?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
Beware! The TR250 is one of the most collectable Triumphs because of what it is - the transition between the TR4 and the TR6. Made only one year, not that many out there. The is not a TR250. The whole idea of what a 250 is has been ruined, so to speak. I certainly have no problem with those of us that drop V8's into Triumphs, it is just that what this particular car is all about has been changed forever and not for the good, IMHO. Too, be really careful with frame problems. Filling body seams could well spell disaster on cars that are prone to rust. I don't mean to sound totally negative. Sounds like a fun car if the kinks are worked out. But a TR250 it ain't no more.

Bill
 
You could put the 6 cyl back in it. For that kind of money, you can get into a runner TR6, with the same fun factor, but a little less style than a 250. This is not a 250. The heart has been robbed from this car.

Also, filled in rear fenders can spell big trouble....if it rusted out on the top, the chrome seam area that runs from the door to the tailamp assembly, this is a sign of trouble underneath. Look for a small (maybe 2 inch) horizontal line in the rear fender right between the wings and the hood (top). If this seam isn't there, and has been filled in, serious rust lurks underneath. The is the most critical area of an IRS Triumph, and bondo in this area is a telltale sign of serious corrosion. The wheels kick the moisture and salt up into the frme in this area, and it rots from the inside out. Get a good hard look at frame and chassis components in the rear of this car. A good respray can hide a world of problems.
 
I agree with TR6bill, the value of this car has been greatly reduced by all the mods. Plus, the cost of making the vehicle safe to drive may be much greater then the car is worth. If the front suspension has not been corrected to take the weight of a V8 engine, you may have additional problems that have to be addressed immediately. I feel the asking price is to high for the amount of money you'll have to put into the car,IMHO. But, if it's really what you want, try to get the purchase price down, so you'll have that extra money to make it a safe driver. Good Luck

scott /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif
 
Personally I'd walk, I have a thing about buying cars that have been heavily modified by someone other than myself or someone that I know well and does good work. Was the conversion done well or does it look like it's been cobbled together? Plus, I think that price is a bit to high for a car thats been hacked up, as someone said you can get yourself into a decent running TR6 for that. Add to that the weak frame, which would really turn me off, and the fact that there is the threat of some serious body rust and I'm outta there. I'd be suspicious of the fact that the car was recently repainted. Maybe the PO had his fun with the car, realized that certain rust related problems were getting to the point that they needed to be addressed and figured he didn't want to deal with them. Easier to just throw some paint on the car, try to hide whats inevitably going to show back up, and get what you can for it while it still looks good. I'm not trying to sound completely negative here, but $4500 isn't chump change and I'd hate to see someone throw that kind of money away on a car that will require at least that much more just to get the body and frame straight. Been there done that. If it was all original maybe, as has been said the TR250 is a unique car, but that part of it has now been removed and replaced. At the least go back there with a magnet and an ice pick and start hunting for bondo and rot. Every time you find a bad spot ask him to drop a few hundred more off the price. Nothing wrong with a little spot of bondo here and there on a driver quality car, like to fill a small door ding, something like that. But when people start rebuilding entire body panels with the stuff it's time to look elsewhere.
 
[ QUOTE ]

More negatives: The frame is weak near where the right front wishbone mounts, and the car does not brake evenly. The rear brakes lock up when you stomp on them because there is so much weight up front and so little in the back.

It has a new raditaor, new top, new master cyclinder, Holley 4 bbl carb, new gas tank and again, it looks great.
I'd have to fix the frame and put some kind of portioning valve in the brakes before I could drive it safely.


[/ QUOTE ]

No only no, but heck no. For much less, and with the idea of a resto, maybe. I agree with all others, this is a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Many British car buyers guides say: "Never buy the first car you look at".

Well, now you've got that out of the way and are free to begin a serious search. Good luck!
 
ummm.. and an Automatic?

did you say Automatic?

Yikes... an Automatic?

Call me crazy but isn't a big part of the fun of these cars jamming it in a downshift and going around a corner right on the ragged edge of spinning out of control and winding up in a ball of flames????
 
[ QUOTE ]
Call me crazy but isn't a big part of the fun of these cars jamming it in a downshift and going around a corner right on the ragged edge of spinning out of control and winding up in a ball of flames????

[/ QUOTE ]

Works for me!
 
Walking is a good move on this. You were wise in taking note of all the warning signs - brakes, body, stucture.. The big engine and all that work being done is soooo appealing. I saw several online before I took on my project. There are countless things to look for in a transplant. Much of them are done underneath and with a tape measure.

I've also seen many a friend jump on a car because of a new paint job. Cosmtics do not help you when the driveshaft falls out.

Good luck in your search! Once you walk away from the first one, amazing things happen- like that BURNING need to get it lessens.

Jeff3113
 
You have a PM
 
If it did'nt have the bodywork fudging, I'd be tempted to get the 250, and then find a doner chassis from a TR6. Take the body off, and put it on the TR6 chassis. That way you'd fix the frame problems, and get the car back to more original type of state, and drive train.
Obviously, it would'nt be original, but it would be difficult for anyone to tell. Unfortunatley with the bondo work you describe it sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.
 
This wasn't the first TR I've looked at. There's a decent TR6 for around $9k that I'm considering, too. But I'de like to spend less and get something I can put some 'sweat equity' into.

I've owned a Spitfire, MGB, TR6 and a TR250 over the years but have not had one in about 16 years.

The thing that I like about it being an automatic is that I'm looking for a commuter and the auto tranny sure beats a stick in bumper-to-bumper traffic.
 
I have heard auto trans was considered as an option on the 250 and 6. Thankfully, this option never matieralized.
 
I put an auto with my V8. THe 700r4 has a really low 1st gear and it also has non-computer OD. With a car this lite Id' bet there's little difference in acceleration between that and a stick.
I do miss the shifting on winding roads.

Jeff
 
Hi,

It's a damned shame someone hacked up that TR250 with the V8 swap. They should have picked a less rare model such as TR7, TR6, TR4A (if they wanted IRS), TR4 or TR3A.

Personally, I'd try to keep the lower production TR8, TR250, TR5, TR3B or any small mouth TR3/TR2 as original as possible. Same with a Roadster or pre-WWII Standard, of course. I'd be absolutely fanatical about an Italia, TRS or any of the other historical race cars, or TR3A Beta!

That 250 could and should be "rescued". It certainly would require some "sweat equity" though! But, $4500 is no great deal. Keep an eye on it and if it doesn't sell, maybe you could offer them a much smaller amount and see what happens. The frame can be repaired, even straightened to a degree if needed. The Bondo-ed rear fender seams might or might not signal any real problem. Many TRs had their fender seams "finished" by amateur "customizers" with a gallon of plastic filler. An engine could be found. Heck, it might even be sitting out in the seller's storage shed in a pile of parts!

Here's another thought. If it could be got for the right price, it might be possible to rebuild it back up as a TR5 (the fuel-injected version of the 250 that was sold in the UK and Europe) which, done right, would be worth a whole lot more than a TR250 here in the US *and* would give you 150 hp performance. I'd be reluctant to modify a nice clean 250 into a TR5, but putting right a hack job like this can be an opportunity.

My ex brother-in-law bought a $500 '64 or '65 Corvette that had been seriously hacked (as in jig-sawed wheel wells to fit "drag slicks"), rebuilt it over the course of a couple year into prize-winning, showroom original condition worth a ton of money. Of course, it helped that he owned a Chevy dealership with it's own body shop at the time!

By the way, properly done V8 conversions add little if any weight. In fact, several engine options are actually lighter than the original TR 4-cylinder or 6-cylinder, and moving the engine/gearbox toward the rear improves already good front to rear balance to near perfect. I doubt the rear brake lockup is directly related to the engine transplant, unless it's some weird and heavy choice in engines. I suspect more likely, they "upgraded" to some sort of high grip shoes or have the wrong size slave cylinders.

The most expensive part of a "rescue" like this would be restoring bodywork to originality. So, current value depends upon what was done to fit the engine, and any other hacking that was done around the car.

Regarding manual or automatic transmission, I understand your thinking. I drove a manual van in SF Bay Area traffic for a number of years. My left leg looked like Popeye's. On the other hand, when I bought my Land Rover I had an opportunity to buy a rare 5-speed manual and have sometimes regretted being practical and buying a much more common automatic instead.

In truth, a TR250 (or TR5 conversion) might not make a good commuter. I'd be worried about general wear and tear on the car and leaving it in parking lots.

Cheers!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
 
I did not catch what kind of rear suspension mod the car has. The frame is weak enough with the 2.5l, so it is no surprise the heaver motor, torque, HP, etc. would need improvement. If the weakness you noticed is coming from rust, I would lace up the running shoes. With that additional power, I doubt the auto would be anything but a good option with city traffic experience on a daily basis. Hopefully some of the V8 "modders" will give you some incite on the rear suspension and connecting the steering wheel to the rack and pinion (as the steering column frequently looks like a Rogue Goldberg" set up. I would not object, in a modified car, to the seams being smoothed up as that seems to be the first thing a body man wants to do... it just looks better. How much radiator does the car have for the big motor and auto trannie to stay cool in the heat of summer with city traffic? If you are contemplating the purchase and putting in the sweat equity, you must be a good welder to strengthen up the frame. Price wise I don't have an educated guess. Do you have gauges that work, what's the interior like? On an on, I usually don't make the forced time deals and don't mind loosing them under a hurry up situation. I sure want to hear the end of the story though.
 
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The thing that I like about it being an automatic is that I'm looking for a commuter and the auto tranny sure beats a stick in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an interesting automatic TR6 in Cal for sale a few years back that was modified for a handicapped driver. They claim it was done with a compatable unit, I assume something from the British Leyland inventory of parts, speaking of automatics.

Back to the car at hand, dropping a V8 into this frame is a complicated ordeal. Just ask Dan Masters and the others that have done it. Converting back to original would be cost prohibitive at best, a nightmare at worse. Find yourself a restorable 250 out there, they exist. You may have to travel a bit. I saw one being trailed down the four-lane over here in South Louisiana a few months ago. I almost killed myself trying to chase him down before I lost him in traffic. I know someone that grafted the front and rear clips off a 4 onto a 6 and "made" a 250. Does that math seem right. It worked for him. Again, the TR250 is valuable, but they aren't that valuable to invest 20-30 thou in one to resurrect it. When sanity prevails, just keep looking.

Bill
 
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