Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
Offline
I took my tank to a radiator repair shop and they cleaned out the tank like they do radiators and pressure tested it to make sure there were no leaks and painted in gloss black.
-
Hi Guest!
You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
There are some perks with a member upgrade!**Upgrade Now**
(PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Sharing story - Solving issue of starving for fuel after running for 10 minutes
- Thread starter cpbol
- Start date
Share this page
Bob_Spidell
Yoda
Offline
This is a long shot, but I read an article in 'Skinned Knuckles' magazine many years ago about someone who bought an old American classic (Caddy, IIRC). He'd gotten the car for a steal because the owner had a problem with the car missing and running badly when warmed up and had given up trying to solve it. Don't know how the new owner diagnosed it, but it turns out that the hard line from the tank--this car likely had an engine-driven pump--had a dent in it. When warm, the dent would cause the fuel flow to cavitate, causing a sort of 'vapor lock.' The new owner replaced the fuel line, and had himself a bargain classic.
So, inspect your fuel lines closely--it can't hurt at this point (note the line from the pump to the engine runs along the bottom chassis rail, and is exposed).
So, inspect your fuel lines closely--it can't hurt at this point (note the line from the pump to the engine runs along the bottom chassis rail, and is exposed).
It seems that you have explored both fuel and ignition issues, and some uncertainly remains about whether this is fuel or ignition related. Have you checked the fuel bowls on the carburetors to see whether they are full, immediately after this occurs? (Of course, be careful when working with fuel near a hot engine.) Another way to help determine whether this is due to interruption in the flow of fuel would be to install a clear fuel bowl or clear fuel filter just before the carburetors. That may allow you to see whether the fuel flow is interrupted or diminished when the car quits or begins to run poorly.
Offline
In addition to checking the fuel bowls I would suggest that you run the car hard to induce the condition and as soon as it starts turn off the ignition and check all of the plugs, looking not so much for perfect color but rather variation between them.
OP
cpbol
Freshman Member
Offline
It will let out a light cough and small backfire when it starts acting up at idle, but the problem mainly occurs under acceleration. The more I baby it, the longer it goes without acting up. Once it acts up under acceleration, it doesn't clear up until I let it set. It doesn't have to set long to clear up - maybe 15 minutes later and it will run again okay for a while.
No issues with lighting when it acts up.
Yes - twice while driving in an "acting up condition", the OD seems to have unexpectedly kicked into 4th gear OD. When I stepped on the gas, nothing happened (such as hearing it kick out of OD). When I down shifted to 3rd, it shifted okay. The switch on the dash is busted. I can't say for sure that it is stuck on or off, but I was assuming off. I have backed up many times and not left the OD in bits on the driveway. Also, I have only ever heard it kick into OD twice (at very random times). The OD has been modified to work in every gear, so there has been some custom wiring. I have the new dash switch that I will be installing tomorrow night.
I was able to disconnect the white with black wire from the kill switch in the trunk. This did not fix the sputtering.
Lastly, today was about 25 degrees warmer, and the car seemed to act up sooner and harder than when the weather was a little cooler. The engine temp is normally at 140F, and today it was at 175F when it started sputtering badly.
It won't take much to check the levels of the float bowls this week after it acts up. I will do that to cross it off the list. I also liked the idea of putting a clear bowl or filter in the line in front of the carbs just to see if it revealed anything. I may try that. The only thing I haven't touched related to fuel supply is I have not removed and checked the 3" line between the 2nd and 3rd carb. I also have not removed or blown air through the hard line between the pump and the first carb. I have had the fuel line off before the first carb and it seemed to be pumping fuel through - no problem. I have also not replaced the jet supply lines between the bowls and the main jets. I don't know why they would only flow freely for a few minutes and then clog up. The bowls are clear of sediment.
Sounds like I'm down to re-replacing the coil and condenser? Have many people experienced bad ones even after replacing with brand new? I am also going to check the vacuum advance on the distributor to make sure it is moving freely.
Jim 58 BN6
Jedi Trainee
Offline
"Sounds like I'm down to re-replacing the coil and condenser? Have many people experienced bad ones even after replacing with brand new? I am also going to check the vacuum advance on the distributor to make sure it is moving freely."
I've had two "new' condensers fail in the last few years (in other cars - not a Healey). Both times, the car quit, and wouldn't start again. There seem to be a lot of people experiencing this, so I guess they just aren't as reliable as they used to be, and I've stopped changing them with the points. I always carry a spare.
Three coils failures in the last 35 years. One O.E.M unit just quit at about 15 years-old, another degraded until the car would only idle, and wouldn't accelerate - but it never recovered after cooling off. The third was a new Lucas Sport coil that lasted about a year, and then failed because some gorilla - who shall remain nameless - over-tightened the clamp, and crushed the can.
I like the idea of the clear fuel filter. I once had the fuel line on a TR4, crossing the front of the valve cover and just touching it. It finally caused a vapor-lock. Moving the line 1/4" solved that problem. Are any fuel lines touching or very near to anything hot? Good luck! I hate stuff like this...
I've had two "new' condensers fail in the last few years (in other cars - not a Healey). Both times, the car quit, and wouldn't start again. There seem to be a lot of people experiencing this, so I guess they just aren't as reliable as they used to be, and I've stopped changing them with the points. I always carry a spare.
Three coils failures in the last 35 years. One O.E.M unit just quit at about 15 years-old, another degraded until the car would only idle, and wouldn't accelerate - but it never recovered after cooling off. The third was a new Lucas Sport coil that lasted about a year, and then failed because some gorilla - who shall remain nameless - over-tightened the clamp, and crushed the can.
I like the idea of the clear fuel filter. I once had the fuel line on a TR4, crossing the front of the valve cover and just touching it. It finally caused a vapor-lock. Moving the line 1/4" solved that problem. Are any fuel lines touching or very near to anything hot? Good luck! I hate stuff like this...
Offline
I purchased a Bosch Blue Coil from Jeff at Advanced Distributor. There are differences in those coils depending upon where they're made! Jeff also has the red rotors too. I would contact him about condensers and see what he has to offer. He can test your cap & plug wires too.
Offline
You might consider disconnecting the fuel line from the front carb and direct the flow into a container. Turn on the pump and let it flow into the container for one minute and measure the volume collected. You should get 0.3 gallons (38 oz) in one minute. If it's less than that, especially much less, then your problem is fuel and not electrical.
OP
cpbol
Freshman Member
Offline
I've lost steam on going after fuel. I'm back on ignition. Does this look like a lot of slop in the distributor shaft? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB3do3fVUPM
D
Deleted member 21150
Guest
Guest
Offline
I had a 71 Karmann Ghia that would stall out when I first bought it. Would run great then all of a sudden start to sputter like it was running out of gas then die. I pulled the tank cleaned it and found a plastic parts tag floating around in it! There wasn't a screen on the pick up and the tag would get sucked onto it cutting off fuel supply. I would let the car sit for a minute or so and I would be good till it got sucked back on whenever it felt like it. Once I removed the tag no more issues.
CLEAH
Jedi Warrior
Offline
No, and that is mechanical, not electrical. It runs well, then doesn't. Again, have you replaced the rotor? Distributor cap? Replaced the ground wire, and the terminal with the low tension lead? All in the distributor. Sounds as if you have done everything else.
RAC68
Darth Vader
Offline
Hi Chris,
After reviewing the play in your distributor shaft, and although play in that area could affect ignition operation, I personally don't feel this is the cause of your problem.
Is your Healey + or - grounded?
Have you checked the carburetor bowel levels as previously suggested?
I keep coming back to 3 disjoint thoughts:
1. Heat induced vapor bubble or debris after the fuel pump.
2. A ground fault resulting from an unintended consequence.
3. Aggressive ignition timing.
Bubble or Debris
The first is an air bubble or debris in your fuel supply, past your fuel pump, that is blocking sufficient fuel from being received in 1 or both of your carburetors. The multiple causes of an air bubble has been mentioned previously and could be causing a heat-induced vapor lock. Additionally, With HD8s, there is a chamber past the pin and under the needle that could be harboring debris related to dried fuel during a long storage. Contamination in this area is not common and, I believe, would only be caused by fuel left in this area to dry over an extended storage period.
Unintended ground Consequence
Have you replaced the OD dash switch. Why was the OD re-wired to allow it to function over all gears? As mentioned in a past post, the OD normally shares a main ground with a number of other key electrical elements it is not that uncommon for a bad ground to find a path to another grounding point through attached unintended circuits.
Advanced Timing
What is your ignition timing set to and how did you set it? Aggressive ignition timing could cause issues when also aggressively accelerating. This situation, combined with reasonable cruising richness, could easily become too lean under aggressive acceleration. Add a weak fuel flow to this scenario and you could produce the conditions described. Yes, this is a stretch but these factors could easily fall in place. It is reasonably easy to dynamically check timing and view the function of your advance. Additionally, checking and setting carburetor richness to a higher testing level is also relatively easy.
I bring these paths as uncommon possibilities and do not want to exacerbate your present level of frustration. However, once identified, I expect you will find your issue's cause will be relatively easy to rectify.
All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
After reviewing the play in your distributor shaft, and although play in that area could affect ignition operation, I personally don't feel this is the cause of your problem.
Is your Healey + or - grounded?
Have you checked the carburetor bowel levels as previously suggested?
I keep coming back to 3 disjoint thoughts:
1. Heat induced vapor bubble or debris after the fuel pump.
2. A ground fault resulting from an unintended consequence.
3. Aggressive ignition timing.
Bubble or Debris
The first is an air bubble or debris in your fuel supply, past your fuel pump, that is blocking sufficient fuel from being received in 1 or both of your carburetors. The multiple causes of an air bubble has been mentioned previously and could be causing a heat-induced vapor lock. Additionally, With HD8s, there is a chamber past the pin and under the needle that could be harboring debris related to dried fuel during a long storage. Contamination in this area is not common and, I believe, would only be caused by fuel left in this area to dry over an extended storage period.
Unintended ground Consequence
Have you replaced the OD dash switch. Why was the OD re-wired to allow it to function over all gears? As mentioned in a past post, the OD normally shares a main ground with a number of other key electrical elements it is not that uncommon for a bad ground to find a path to another grounding point through attached unintended circuits.
Advanced Timing
What is your ignition timing set to and how did you set it? Aggressive ignition timing could cause issues when also aggressively accelerating. This situation, combined with reasonable cruising richness, could easily become too lean under aggressive acceleration. Add a weak fuel flow to this scenario and you could produce the conditions described. Yes, this is a stretch but these factors could easily fall in place. It is reasonably easy to dynamically check timing and view the function of your advance. Additionally, checking and setting carburetor richness to a higher testing level is also relatively easy.
I bring these paths as uncommon possibilities and do not want to exacerbate your present level of frustration. However, once identified, I expect you will find your issue's cause will be relatively easy to rectify.
All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Last edited:
RAC68
Darth Vader
Offline
Just happen to read an entry on another Forum that may help. Addressed "Car Stumbling on Acceleration", is points to my #3 possibility (above).
According to Pete, his Healey had too much advance resulting in the car running a bit Hot. When he shut it down, he describes the car going into "Heat Soak Mode" where the heat from the radiator fed back through the engine into the carburetors. From there, heat soaked further into the line resident fuel causing a further leaning of the carburetor mixture as well as a potential vapor lock.
Although Pete's experience is not exactly as you are experiencing, the conditions he describes could be contributing factors that are further mitigated by your additional original conditions and settings.
Ray (64BJ8P1)
According to Pete, his Healey had too much advance resulting in the car running a bit Hot. When he shut it down, he describes the car going into "Heat Soak Mode" where the heat from the radiator fed back through the engine into the carburetors. From there, heat soaked further into the line resident fuel causing a further leaning of the carburetor mixture as well as a potential vapor lock.
Although Pete's experience is not exactly as you are experiencing, the conditions he describes could be contributing factors that are further mitigated by your additional original conditions and settings.
Ray (64BJ8P1)
Offline
Electronic pickups such as Pertronix are more forgiving of distributor shaft wobble than are points and though I don't think it is your main problem you should address it at some point.
I again suggest that you take your car out for a hard run to induce the problem and when it appears turn the key off, coast to a stop and pull all of your spark plugs to compare them. Plugs usually tell the tale and you might be able to determine if the problem is common to all cylinders, indicating ignition or common fuel supply, or only one or two which would point to a whole 'nother list of possible causes.
Please do this and report back.
I again suggest that you take your car out for a hard run to induce the problem and when it appears turn the key off, coast to a stop and pull all of your spark plugs to compare them. Plugs usually tell the tale and you might be able to determine if the problem is common to all cylinders, indicating ignition or common fuel supply, or only one or two which would point to a whole 'nother list of possible causes.
Please do this and report back.
OP
cpbol
Freshman Member
Offline
UPDATE: After returning home with a sputtering Healey, I quick pulled the caps off the float bowls to find the gas in the 2nd and 3rd bowls boiling. (closest two carbs to the fire wall). I see that the bowls are withing 1/8" of actually touching the heavy cast exhaust manifold in the adjacent vicinity. So the good news is I think I discovered the sputtering problem. My next question is why is the fuel boiling?
One thing I know after getting the car a month ago. . . I have been running the 100% gasoline without ethanol. I'm thinking it must have a lower boiling point than regular pump 93 octane. Does anyone have any experience with boiling points from different types of fuels?
Chris
One thing I know after getting the car a month ago. . . I have been running the 100% gasoline without ethanol. I'm thinking it must have a lower boiling point than regular pump 93 octane. Does anyone have any experience with boiling points from different types of fuels?
Chris
Last edited:
Jim 58 BN6
Jedi Trainee
Offline
That's great to find something that makes sense. Shouldn't there be some kind of a heat shield between the exhaust manifold and the carbs?
Edit: Just saw Steve's post. That's most likely the cause, IMHO.
Edit: Just saw Steve's post. That's most likely the cause, IMHO.
