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Screeching Noise?

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Dale - that *sure* sounds to me like the starter pinion gear isn't pushing (pulling?) the right distance to engage in the ring gear.

Been there ...

Tom
 
Ok Tom, but what does that mean?

What is a starter pinion gear?
What do I need to purchase and install so
the car does not breakdown and strand me
somewhere far from home?

Is installing a starter pinion gear a
side-of-the-road repair or a on jacks again
repair?

thanks,

Always something, ain't it?

dale
 
Thats not a side of the road repair. You could rebuild the starter. It might be easiest to take it off and take it to automotive electric shop. Most makes and models people would just replace the starter, but im not sure that would be cost effective in this case. Look at it this way though, if the starter gear wont engage, you still wouldnt be totally stranded, just push start the car.
 
Dale - it's also possible you could "save the day" by putting a shim (or two?) between the starter and the bell housing. Unfortunately I don't know TR6's at all, but it's a technique some mechanics use to properly place the pinion gear.

At least on my TR3A, you can pull the starter out with the car in the garage - but not very easy at the side of the road.

The gear is the part that shoots out from inside the starter when you try to start the engine. It's supposed to engage the ring gear. With wear, or other nasty mischief, it sometimes shoots out too far - or not far enough.

Tom
 
Heh, didnt even think of that. If its possible to get a visual inspection on the gear though that would help. It might be pretty badly ground down. If not though, shimming would do the trick.
 
Sounds somewhat like a dry or worn bushing to me. In any case to remedy the problem removal of the starter will be required.
Were it me, I would remove the starter and inspect it for metal shavings IE. worn pinion gear teeth. IF you don`t see any signs of worn teeth, Pinion or Flywheel. I would then proceed to dismantle the starter and inspect for signs of bushing wear IE. brass shavings inside near the end caps. Even if the bushings are in good condition, a dry condition can make the noise. What you might want to do is check your local parts sources and see if the bushings and new brushes are available. You may end up ordering from another source. A temporary fix might just be a little lube on the bearing surfaces {bushings and the area where the pinion slides on the shaft}
Were it me, I WOULD replace at least the bushings and brushes while I had the starter off of the engine if not the pinion gear too!
Replacing the bushings and brushes and pinion gear is a fairly straight forward job you should be able to handle it easily.
 
Tinster,
I had the same thing happen. I think the problem is the solenoid (small juice-can sized thing on top of starter) is weak and not throwing the starter pinion into mesh with the ring gear. At first I could depress the clutch and start the car. This apparently moved the flywheel/ring gear closer to the starter, helping the pinion teeth mesh with the ring gear before the starter turned.
After a while, this didn't work anymore, so I put on a different starter that I had rebuilt - this one worked fine. I tested the solenoid on the old starter, and the pull in coil did seem a little less strong, but nothing conclusive.

Gotta head to work, but here are some shots of the internal starter parts in question. Note the spiral shaft the pinion is mounted on. This rotates the pinion as it is pushed into mesh with the ring gear. If something keeps the pinion from going out far enough, the starter will start turning at full speed before it engages with the ring gear. This turns the starter into a heavy-duty noisemaker...

Jeff
74 TR6 CF13816U
 

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Slainte,

When you had your fueling problems, did you get drainage down onto the starter?
Sounds like dry starter bushings.

Sure fire way to solve the problem. Get a later design compound action starter. Anywhere from 65 for an Isuzu that fits(forget which model, but I'm sure some web searching will turn it up for you) up to 200+ at the big boys stores.

Or you can take your heavy lump of Lucas off, rebuild it, with special attention to long life grease on the bushings and shaft ends.
 
TRopic6 said:
This apparently moved the flywheel/ring gear closer to the starter, helping the pinion teeth mesh with the ring gear before the starter turned.
Click to expand...
Ooh, that's scary. Have you checked your crankshaft endplay recently ? Should only be a few thousandths, but TR6 motors seem to like to eat thrust washers, and a huge endplay is the first sign of trouble. If you wait until the washer falls out in the pan, you won't be a happy camper.
 
NutmegCT said:
Dale - that *sure* sounds to me like the starter pinion gear isn't pushing (pulling?) the right distance to engage in the ring gear.
Click to expand...
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif Unfortunately shimming won't help, as it just moves the gears farther apart.

Pull the starter, examine the teeth on both the starter & the ring gear. Also check to see if the ring gear has managed to move on the flywheel. If the gears look OK, I'd try changing the solenoid. Note that the ring gear will look "backward", with the tapered side of the teeth facing away from the starter. This is normal, the taper is for a Bendix style starter similar to earlier TRs but not used on the TR250/6.

If the ring gear is damaged or pushed back, you might be able to avoid pulling the engine by converting to the "gear drive" starter that Ron mentioned. Any of the usual LBC suppliers should be able to sell you one already modified to fit. I've got one on my TR3A and like it. Only downside is that it no longer sounds like a TRactor motor when cranking; more like a jet engine spooling up /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
TRopic6 said:
Tinster,
I had the same thing happen. I think the problem is the solenoid (small juice-can sized thing on top of starter) is weak and not throwing the starter pinion into mesh with the ring gear....
Click to expand...
Certainly a possibility, but it raises the question of which starter you have, Dale. Since you have a TR250 engine, you might have a different starter, specifically one with a separate solenoid such as is found on the GT6 and most Spitfires, Heralds and others?
 
Dale, someone did raise a possiblity of a concern, but slim as you stated you have a 250 boat anchor, not a 6.

Check the thrust bearing for dropping out. Easy check is have someone push in the clutch pedal while you watch the crank pulley for forward movement. If you see it moving more than a few millimeter, drop the pan and put thrust washers in. 250's didn't seem to have this problem as much as several years of the 6 motor. I have a feeling that Standard changed the parts spec, or supplier of bearings, in the years that this problem cropped up.
 
Andrew Mace said:
TRopic6 said:
Tinster,
I had the same thing happen. I think the problem is the solenoid (small juice-can sized thing on top of starter) is weak and not throwing the starter pinion into mesh with the ring gear....
Click to expand...
Certainly a possibility, but it raises the question of which starter you have, Dale. Since you have a TR250 engine, you might have a different starter, specifically one with a separate solenoid such as is found on the GT6 and most Spitfires, Heralds and others?
Click to expand...

Dale posted pictures a while back, he has the type with the solenoid piggybacked on top of it.
Dale needs to take it apart clean it all up and make sure the moving bits are free to move and then regrease the moving bits (motor bearings and the bearing that the solenoid arm rotates on.
 
David,

The starter made that awful noise BEFORE David Graves
and I switched out the clutch. It is getting worse now.
But I'll check it out.

I am sooooo close to being able to drive this car that
I am afraid to mess with the starter until I have a few
miles actual drive time. The "new" fuel pump is working
perfectly and I should have the emergency fuel pump
installed by this weekend. Then get the rear brakes
working (or not) and take a slow, small close to home drive.

Here is a photo of my starter:

starter1.jpg
 
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