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Satellite TV cable installation question.

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PAUL161

PAUL161

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<span style="font-size: 10pt">Building a new home. All wiring will be done when house is framed out. Does satellite tv, (Dish Network etc), use the same cable as regular cable tv or is it different? Can both signals be sent over the same wire or type? Both floors and most of the rooms will be wired for tv.</span>
 
Yes...I believe so...but then, I've been wrong before.

Check with the DirecTV rep/DISH rep or Radioshack...they should know for sure.

BTW...I did the same thing when we built our home in 2005.
 
Directv also requires a telephone line.

Larry
 
so does Dish (use a telephone jack)

pretty sure it is the same stuff you use for cable tv - RG59 or something like that...


m
 
Satellite/cable now uses RG6. Older RG59 won't work. It would behoove you to run twin-RG6 too, not just a single line.

I'll dig up my notes, but do your research on what system you're likely going to want.

For HDTV systems, up until recently Direct-TV requires a single coax to each receiver. That included DVRs. If you had a DVR/Receiver you needed two coaxes going to it.

Now they have better systems that are more like traditional cable installations without a mess of wires going everywhere. I can't remember the limitations, or whether you needed a coax run directly to the distribution point from each room. It <span style="font-style: italic">used to be</span> you couldn't "daisy chain" the locations together. In other words, you couldn't run a single coax around the house and tap off of it like a water-pipe. I think some of the newer equipment will let you do that <span style="font-style: italic">to a point</span>.

Up until recently the "standard" HDTV dTV dish setup required four cables running from the house to the dish. The newer systems can use a single cable, but you need the right equipment to to make it all work. It's coming slowly, but the installers and dTV aren't jumping right on that bandwagon. You can buy the equipment yourself and install it (you just have to know what to get).

Dish is a little different, and a little more traditional.

The trick is learning what's out there and how to apply it to your installation. In short, you can't go wrong with having independent twin-RG6 runs to each room.

You don't need a phone line for dTV by the way. Some installers will say you do. dTV might say you do. But you <span style="font-style: italic">do not need a phone line</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">unless</span> you want to use pay-per-view. The phone line was merely a way to send billing information to dTV. dTV's HDTV receivers offer on-demand service that actually uses a broadband internet connection to download movies/shows to the DVR. I have a hunch that internet connection also replaces the phone line for billing purposes.
 
been a long time since i did any of that stuff- Thanks for the update!


m
 
Some more information... the newer systems available from/for direct-TV systems uses what's called a "SWM" (single wire multiswitch), which makes wiring a lot more sensible. With a system based around a SWM you can use a single coax to each receiver - and that includes <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> DVR receivers that will accept a single coax instead of two (the reality is the DVR receiver is still acting like two receivers but runs off one coax).

If you run a single coax around the house you <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> have to use splitters that meet certain specs at each location <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> the length of the coax run cannot exceed a certain length (I think 200') from the SWM itself.

Another limitation is the number of receivers that can be used with a single SWM/antenna. I think the max right now is 8 receivers. If you're using DVR receivers (which seems to be common now) that means you can only serve four locations with one system (each DVR/receiver is actually two receivers in one). That doesn't mean you can't wire each room - but you can only have four DVR/receivers installed at any given time.

That set up (separate coax runs to each room or a single run using splitters at each receiver location) will work with either dTV or a cable system. Running twin RG6 would allow for expansion and/or using cable internet without trying to combine the signals with the satellite.

A few links worth reading through - some of the forums have been really helpful to me in the past:
https://www.weaknees.com/
https://www.swm8.com
https://www.satelliteguys.us/
https://www.dbstalk.com
https://www.avsforum.com
 
My DirectTV setup uses twin coax, telephone line and network cable. Because you may want to receive local high def channels too through the Direct TV receiver, you may want one or two extra coax cables for VHF/UHF too.
 
Without reading previous replies (because I'm too lazy)...

The latest Direct TV HD DVR requires two separate coaxial cables run to it.

Also, the phone line is only necessary for pay-per-view items. It is not required for software updates, scheduling, etc. There is a feature which allows you to set recordings from your laptop while away, but I'm not sure if that requires a physical connection with network or phone, or if it's done through DTV wirelessly.
 
Just last week we had Directv installed at the house. The installer rewired each room with RD6 and has only 1 cable to each receiver, 2 of which are HD, with a single 8 pole splitter. He would NOT mount the dish on the eves like I wanted but insisted on mounting it on the brick wall or roof. Sorry, no extra holes needed in the roof. You do not need phone lines to the receivers, but it is handy for ordering movies and on-screen caller ID. I also ran a CAT6 cable from the router to the bedroom for ON Demand movies and shows.
grin.gif


P.S. We LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE our new Directv service. HD in surround sound? WOOF!!! :banana:
 
longbridgehealey said:
Directv also requires a telephone line.

Larry
Click to expand...

It's really only required if you're renting movies, etc., and want immediate rental rather than going online.

I only have a phone line connnected to only one of my four receivers...and they all work just fine.

Additionally, I have a "rabbit" that sends the signal to a receiver-less TV in another room of the house. Only downside to that is both TVs must watch the same programming. (Fun to mess with the spouse or kids minds, though!)
 
Great information guys, thanks a bunch! The house will be wired similar to how this house is, where each room has it's own separate cable back to a central hook up. On this house, there are 13 separate cables running to a box outside the house that the cable co. installed along with separate phone lines following the cable runs. Each room receptacle has a phone jack on top and a cable connection on the bottom. I know it was an overkill but, It was one of those, (just in case) things. I would like the new house wired in a similar fashion.
Now another question; Who offers the best service for the money?
confused0031.gif
 
Folks slam DISH in this area...and most (like me) have DirecTV.

I live in the country and have no access to cable.
 
Steve_S said:
The latest Direct TV HD DVR requires two separate coaxial cables run to it.
Click to expand...

The latest DVR receivers, HR20, HR21, and HR22 can be used with a single coax when used with an SWM. Systems without an SWM can be used with a single coax if you don't use the DVR.
 
PAUL161 said:
On this house, there are 13 separate cables running to a box outside the house that the cable co. installed along with separate phone lines following the cable runs. Each room receptacle has a phone jack on top and a cable connection on the bottom.
Click to expand...

That sounds like about what the newest dTV systems need. Given the choice I'd run the twin-RG6 instead of a single one, even if you only put a single-coax outlet plate at least the 2nd cable is there for expansion if needed. If you do that though, don't let the installers take advantage of it by skipping a single-coax SWM system :wink:
 
aerog said:
The latest DVR receivers, HR20, HR21, and HR22 can be used with a single coax when used with an SWM. Systems without an SWM can be used with a single coax if you don't use the DVR.
Click to expand...
My HR22 requires two lines, the installers said one wouldn't work. I don't know why and I didn't question them. I'm using an oval dish, #3 or 5 I believe, with H DVR service.
 
Your receiver doesn't require two, your installation does. I had an installer <span style="font-style: italic">insist</span> we had to run twin RG6 in the house. When I asked him why we couldn't use an SWM system he kind of turned red and said he didn't do those and left (in the long run I couldn't use an SWM system either because we only have RG59 in the house, but that's another story).

The equipment has been around for quite awhile but the installers and even DTV have been slow to even admit they're available. I suspect DTV was reluctant to supply the SWMs to contracted installers (or credit them for the SWMs) because the twin RG6 was cheaper, but not necessarily better.

The single-line systems are now pretty common and the equipment is to the point where you can ditch the old antenna LNB that required 4 coax feeds with one that has just one. It requires a power-supply that powers the LNB/SWM through the coax, and you have to use the right splitters downstream, but otherwise it's about as simple as installing a catv system. One coax from the antenna into the house, and one coax to the receiver(s).

Solid Signal has a couple of good videos (made for direct-TV installers I think) on how it works and how it install it.

Here are the receivers capable of using a single-coax with an SWM system:
HR20-100 through HR20-700
HR21-100 through HR21-700
HR22-100 through HR22-700
H20-100 through H20-700
H21-100 through H21-700
H22-100 through H22-700
H23-100 through H23-700
R16-100 through R16-700
R22-100 through R22-700
R23-100 through R23-700
D12-100 through D12-700
D13-100 through D13-100
 
What does <span style="font-weight: bold">SWM</span> mean? Even though the back of our big TV looks like something that belongs in a electronics lab, I'm not into the TV thing, so some of the terminology is Greek to me. Also what's <span style="font-weight: bold">DVR</span>? I'm only assuming that <span style="font-weight: bold">D13, R22,HR20</span> etc are receivers. Is that correct?
 
If the SWM setup required a power supply to run it, then I'd just go with two cables. I don't need another powered device in the system. I also prefer to make direct runs rather than using wall plates.

Now if Direct TV would stop sending me H22s. The darn things make so much hum in the audio that I can't use it. They know it's a problem with these units and I've requested a different type of box three times. I have three H22 sitting here in boxes, all useless to me, and I still have no audio unless I want to listen to hum.
 
PAUL161 said:
What does <span style="font-weight: bold">SWM</span> mean?
Click to expand...

Single Wire Multiswitch.

An SWM "box" allows you to ditch the 2nd coax and use a single coax throughout your house. When they came out a lot of people were designing their systems so the SWM box fed a splitter, sometimes in the garage or a utility room if it was near the wall where the dish was...that way all the boxes and power supply were hidden away and the rest of the house worked like it was on a simple cable-TV system.

You'll also hear "LNB" - it means 'low noise block' but when you hear the term just assume it's the part of the dish that receives the signals (it's the antenna parts that hang in front of the dish).

Slimline is the popular style dish direct-TV started using that is a horizontal oval with a wide LNB for HDTV service. Other dishes were round, vertical oval, or somewhat square with rounded corners.

SWMLine is a Slimline dish with an LNB that is also an SWM (whew, got <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> those terms in one sentence :smile: ), therefore eliminating the SWM box and making the entire satellite system a one-coax system just like cable...sort of. You still need a splitter to make it work, but the wiring is a lot cleaner.

DVR is digital video recorder (Tivo is a brand-name of a DVR).

HR20/21/22, etc, are model numbers of the dTV receivers. If you get HD service with dTV you're likely to be supplied with an HR21 or HR22 receiver.

Uh... on the forums you'll see dTV, dT, and d* - all shorthand for direct-TV.

Whew.
 
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