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Rust underneath battery

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Olafthor

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Dear BCF Triumph Members,

When I purchased my TR6 I guess I didn't give it a thorough enough going over....anyway, when I began working on my clutch woes I noticed that the battery was sitting on a piece of plywood painted flat black.

Curoisity got the best of me, so I removed the battery and plywood only to find rusty sheet metal.

Can anyone suggest a correct course of action to remedy this?

Many thanks,
Daniel
 
Hi Daniel, I do not know if a replacement tray is available for that car. However, you could have a tin shop bend you up a new bottom piece that was a friction fit. There are body adhesives available now that would allow you to securely glue it in place. The old rusty bottom will have to be cut out. Alternatively, a plastic battery tray could be fitted--Fwiw-Keoke
 
Daniel
this seems to be a common problem. I discovered rust under my battery only when I came to change it for a new one.
I wire brushed my battery shelf clean, treated it with a rust inhibitor and fibreglassed the shelf including the fire wall behind the battery. This also has the added effect of raising the shelf a few mm to stop water (condensation) accummulating there, as this shelf is the lowest area on the fire wall. If water makes it's way over the drain channel along the back edge of the bonnet, it will sit under the battery.
Tinster (Dale) from this forum re-sheeted his battery shelf with aluminium, but I'm not a fan of mixing metals.
I hope this helps.
Regards
Craig
 
Olafthor said:
When I purchased my TR6 I guess I didn't give it a thorough enough going over....anyway
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is a very common statement. First-time purchasers of Triumphs that might not really know what they are looking at will buy a car that more often than not have hidden problems that the <u>P</u>revious <u>O</u>wner will never disclose. So much better the reason to have a friend or other who knows these cars to go along on the initial inspection and help in the negotiations.

Anyway, rust in the battery tray is all too common. It would be best to clean out the paint down to bare metal and see how bad the damage is. If only deep surface rust, all is not lost. Simply treating the rust with a phosphoric acid type rust killer and repainting is all that is needed. If too thin or holes are apparent, then you will need to cut out the metal and replace with a weld-in piece. It usually can be custom made from 20-gauge sheet metal. Might require a pro to weld in if you don't have the skills. The problem is there is lots of "stuff" behind the battery tray that welding will destroy or damage. Might behoove you to get down on your back with a strong flashlight to look under the dash. Again, someone good with a TIG welder can can often do the job with care.
How is the rest of the car for rust?

Now is the time to use a plastic battery tray available from all the vendors.
 
As others have said, it is a very common problem. The remedy depends on how extensive the rust is. On a minimal level you could encapsulate the rust with a rust encapsulator or POR15. On a moderate level you could cut out the rust and patch weld with 20 guage steel. With major rust, as is my case, total replacement of the steel would be required. You can fabricate your own panel, or you can buy a replacement panel. I bought my panel from Revington in England...shipping costs were out of control. The replacement panel is an exact match and although it has yet to be installed I know it will fit perfectly. Once you fix the panel spend the extra money on an Optima battery so that this never happens again.
 
Sounds like welding is a problem unless you are working off a stripped body shell.

Has anyone tried shielding the backside of the battery shelf from a MIG welder approach?
 
My Spitfire will need a new battery tray, and when I replace it I am going to simply "tach weld" a new one in.

The original is "spot welded" in place - basically just welded around the edge of the battery tray every couple of inches(not a solid bead which is hard to do, and makes lots of heat). Then the rest seems to be just sealed with body filler/paint(from the factory).

I think I will duplicate this, but arc welding not spot welding, and if I'm careful I don't think I'll have any problems burning anything inside the car. I of course will cover things up with tin foil and remove carpet etc. first.

Just thought my plan might help your plan.


Adam H.
___________________________________________________________
1973 Triumph Spitfire.
 
Hola Daniel !

Here is another option if you do not have
much thru and thru rust. The Crypt Car
battery shelf was more nasty looking than
it was ruined. It was also banged up pretty good.

I scraped away everything loose, used paint stripper
to get down to metal. Drill head wire brush on rust
and then serval washes with phos. acid. Final cleaning
deck area with xylene. One coat primer paint and two
coats engine bay red.

Then I fabricated an .050 aluminum deck overlay piece
to make things level and square. I pre-painted the overlay.

Then I installed industrial grade adhesive over the
original battery deck and placed the overlay in the
adhesive. I was trying to avoid dis-similar metal
contact.

Once in place, I sprayed the battery deck area again
and installed a few tek screws just to be safe.

It was out of the question to perform any type of
welding in the Crypt garage. This was my alternate
solution.

batteryshelf.jpg
 
If you were trying to avoid dissimilar metals you should have used steel. Floating the ALI on the adhesive Then installing "Tek Screws" undid what you were trying to do.--Keoke
 
As good as it looks now, without the plastic battery tray, it's back to the paint shop next spring.

Where exactly is that Red Devil hiding these days?
 
Thank you to everyone who replied! I've been out the last couple of days and was unable to get to BCF. Everyone here has been so very helpful. Thanks.

I'll get to work this weekend on investigating just how bad the rust is.

Just another question. Is the 20 gauge steel the same type of sheet metal steel readily available at home improvement places? Or is it a special type of automotive steel?

Thanks,
Daniel
 
Same stuff. Just make sure you get "weldable steel" and not galvanized.
 
alphatopher said:
Once you fix the panel spend the extra money on an Optima battery so that this never happens again.
Click to expand...


I have an Optima gel battery in my TR6, installed with one layer of 1/4" thick rubber sheet permanently glued to the back of the battery itself and the battery sitting on top of 2 layers of 1/4" sheets cut to fit the battery shelf and themselves removable. I till get paint failure and areas of rust appearing around the hold-down brackets. Bummer. The whole shelf area was stripped to bare metal, treated and coated with POR-15.

This is a very exasperating nuisance for everyone. I think the only answer is to remove the battery every day and let the shelf rest. The weight of the battery plus the amount of tension applied to it makes for a lot of stress on the painted surface. Plus, knowing next to nothing about electricity (again, I don't trust anything that I cannot see), I feel there has to be some kind of "electrolysis" going on in this area that causes there to be a breakdown in the metal. (the word electrolysis in this instance is used to mean voodoo). A real PITA.
 
I defer to others about the repair but I would second the comments about avoiding dissimilar metals (particularly on this repair).

On the GT6 (and possibly Spitfires) there was at one time a blow molded, deep battery box liner that kept any acid off the metal and paint. The previous owner of our GT6 (my father-in-law) fitted one to our GT6... only AFTER the battery box had rusted out. On other cars (LBC and Japanese) I've sometimes fitting a marine battery box to keep the acid off the metal. They aren't pretty, but they are effective.
 
Guys, wouldn't using a plastic battery tray from TRF or Vicky Brit help prevent this from happening again once it was repaired?

The TR4A had a hack repair that I'm slowing getting around to trying to fix, but I already have the plastic battery tray because I know I'm not going to want to do this again...
 
I just had an idea. I was thinking of a way to keep the battery off the tray surface so that any water that gets in there can evaporate. I thought of those sticky, adhering rubber feet that can be bought for furniture etc. Stick them on the bottom of the battery to provide space.

Hmmmm.


Adam H.
___________________________________________________________
1973 Triumph Spitfire.
 
Your reasoning is good but there might be some issues with that. First, the battery usually requires quite a bit of torque-down pressure to keep it securely in place. A less than tight battery is a dangerous battery. Anything underneath will make it unstable unless it completely covers the whole bottom. Also, anything small will imprint the paint, causing cracks and rust. A battery box has grooves, but they also crack. I have cracked 2. I resorted to resting my Optima on the 2 layers of 1/4" rubber sheets that allow me to torque it down tightly, with one rubber sheet in the back. Now that my engine is out for work, I will take the POR15 off the battery shelf (it cracked and rust is creeping in, again), and recoat. This time, I will go with an Eastwood finish. POR15 will and does crack, kinda like the old Emron. I am going back to Red Lead Primer for all surfaces that require refinishing. Tired of paint separating.
 
Here is how I took care of the issue.

1) Battery Box (Moss or VB, can't remember)

2) Battery Acid absorption mat (like Moss sells)

3) Rubber strips between the raised sections of the batteryshelf, underneath the battery box. (Like Bill has been talking about.)

P1110001.jpg


Not even a trace of battery acid/fume damage anywhere on the car. Sort of dusty under the bonnet though. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Battery is a simple Interstate with stickers removed so I could put the LUCAS sticker on it. Some say I am tempting fate with that sticker. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
An even better solution to the $40 plastic batt tray is a marine battery box. I did however cut the front of mine at an angle, but left it higher than the box they sell to give some added protection. If you really want to go the 9's leave the box intact with the cover that straps on.

Only about $10 at any marine store. Try westmarine.com for you landlubbers! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
Shawn, is that actually dirt or grease that I see on the hood latch??? It just can't be! Must be a flaw in the picture.
 
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