Ribcase transmission won’t engage 3rd or 4th gear

[NedZ]

I have recently bought a 1967 Sprite that was in storage for about 20 years. I do not know why it was not used. The 1098 engine runs pretty well and I can shift into 1st, 2nd, and reverse with no problems. When trying to go to 3rd or 4th the selector rod does not move at all. It may be that the interlock ball or plunger is stuck.
Is there anything that can be done to free this without pulling the gearbox out of the car? Is there anything else I should check?

 

[Boink]

Of course, always check the hydraulics... but if you can get it into all but 3rd and 4th... um, not so good.

[I hasten to add that I don't know that much about transmissions except to pull them and take them to someone that does.]

 

[DrEntropy]

Have you taken off the shifter boot to be certain the gearshift lever travels as far to the right as it should to shift through the 3rd/4th position and not stopped by the tunnel's opening in the body?

 

[NedZ]

Have you taken off the shifter boot to be certain the gearshift lever travels as far to the right as it should to shift through the 3rd/4th position and not stopped by the tunnel's opening in the body?

The gearshift lever will go far enough to the right to engage reverse. That is actually past the 3rd/4th position in this case.
The transmission had a loose drain plug and no oil when I got the car. Shifter seemed “gummy” at first but has gotten better now that I have oil in it.

 

[DrEntropy]

Apologies. Been literal decades since I've seen a Spritdget with a "right-side" reverse. You stated the engine runs, so have you filled the gearbox and run the thing up to normal temp? For what its worth, (as in not much to lose) maybe try a half-n-half trans lube mix with ATF? If the spring/ball/rod were somehow stuck due to corrosion or "goop", that may loosen it up with operating temp and ATF mix. But it sounds ominously like an engine/gearbox R&R in your future.

 

[NedZ]

Tried the ATF mix you suggested and ran about 30 minutes. No luck with 3rd/4th gear. Also, the more I run the car and fight with the trans, the less I like the sound of the clutch release bearing. I guess 20 years of inactivity was harder on this car than I had hoped!
Making plans to pull everything out. Thanks for trying.

 

[RickF]

Tried the ATF mix you suggested and ran about 30 minutes. No luck with 3rd/4th gear. Also, the more I run the car and fight with the trans, the less I like the sound of the clutch release bearing. I guess 20 years of inactivity was harder on this car than I had hoped!
Making plans to pull everything out. Thanks for trying.

Can you shift into 3rd and 4th with the engine off? If so, do it a bunch of times to try to loosen up the interlock parts. probably pretty gummed up after 20 years with no oil.

 

[NedZ]

No difference in the feel of the shift lever with engine running or not. It seems to go into the middle slot easily but there is just no movement forward or back and I am pushing pretty hard.

 

[DrEntropy]

Too many of the internal bits of that transmission are hens' teeth to be forcing things. Time to pull the engine and box to truly ascertain what's wrong.

 

[NedZ]

That’s the plan. I will let you know what I find but it might be a while.

 

[NedZ]

I now have the engine/transmission out of the car. The clutch release bearing is completely disintegrated but that will be easy to fix. The third/fourth shift problem appears to be a stuck “syncro assembly, 3rd/4th” Item 14 in the Moss catalog. There are no real signs of distress anywhere but the outer sleeve cannot move at all on the splines. Slight movement is possible on the selector fork for 3rd/4th and the rest of the gears engage normally.
I am not going to disassemble further until I can locate a replacement part.
In the meanwhile, I am wondering if there is someone who has seen this part get stuck and hopefully has a way to free it up.

 

[DrEntropy]

If the thing sat static all that time, possible corrosion in one or more of the detent springs/balls would be about the only thing to keep the sleeve from moving. Disassembly and soaking the 3rd/4th cluster in ATF and periodic "persuasion" with a dead-blow hammer, or a piece of wood as interface with a Big F'n Hammer in both directions should get it apart eventually. Patience and persistence! If you can get it to move at all, the back-and-forth (one side, then the other) impact should work.

A "last ditch" effort may be to dilute muriatic acid and give the assembly a couple hours' bath. But safety is a real concern with that! A super-thorough water rinse and the cog back into the ATF as well.

 

[JPSmit]

while you have it apart, confirm that the pivot arm isn't bent - they are a known weak spot.

 

[NedZ]

Is the pivot arm the part that engages the 3 selector rods?

 

[JPSmit]

Is the pivot arm the part that engages the 3 selector rods?

no, that engages the thrust bearing

 

[NedZ]

Thanks. Will update in a couple days.

 

[JPSmit]

Thanks. Will update in a couple days.

Sounds great! Not wanting to complicate your day (and remembering that I have a 1500 not a 1275) there are real issues with certain clutch throwout bearings.

Spridget Roller Clutch Release Bearing : MG Midget Forum : The MG Experience

Seems I've been hearing more complaints about the clutch release bearings sold by Moss and other suppliers not holding up very well. I race an MG Midget in SCCA H-Production with a stock drive train, and the bearing in the newly-installed Borg and Beck clutch kit disintegrated after 3 short races.

www.mgexp.com

Brand new throwout bearing and clutch smashed : MG Midget Forum : The MG Experience

I pulled my engine out today and got confirmed that the "squeek" sound actually was the throw out bearing having said good bye. It allso has destroyed the clutch "foot". The clutch kit with bearing is only 450 miles old! Now, how on earth could that happen? I have only used the

www.mgexp.com

 

[PAUL161]

Here's my 2 cents on throwout bearings. The roller throwout bearings need a slide tube on the front of the transmission to keep them straight and in proper alignment with the pressure plate. The carbon throwout bearing will follow the line of the pressure plate rubbing surface and is not designed to need a slide tube. Carbon throwout bearings can last a very long time, even if one is lax in not putting the transmission in neutral at times for a long period. Yes, there are some who say they have X thousands of miles on roller bearings with no problems, if that is true, why does replacing a carbon-bearing with a roller/ball bearing cause the roller to go bad so quickly, because they weren't designed as a replacement. Use what the factory-installed, carbon, they had a good reason for doing it their way. I have a carbon throwout bearing with my new 5-speed High Gear transmission and it works perfectly!

 

[DrEntropy]

We've always stayed with rock-stock clutch T/O bearing and PPlate in any of the clients' BMC/BL cars. The bearing style, as Paul notes, is meant to be centered and in plane with the pressure plate by means of a tube surrounding the tranny input shaft. No tube means the bearing hits the fingers of the plate at one point on its circumference, chewing it up prematurely.

The Sachs or AP "kits" have been good in the past, it's possible that has changed but more recent experiences need be posted.

 

[NedZ]

Thanks for the valuable input regarding throw out bearings. I will be staying with the original style carbon bearing.
The stuck parts in the transmission have yielded to spray penetrating oil and a three jaw puller. The corrosion cleaned up well with a wire brush and I will be able to re-use all the gears. Will replace balk rings and needle bearings. Hope to get all the detent balls in the correct locations.