Rhetorical Question/Comment - Use of Clutch Pedal?

[dklawson]

I keep cars forever. It was with a bit of embarrassment that 10 years ago I couldn't get a car to start at a used car lot. When I went to tell the salesman, he chuckled at me and asked "You were remembering to hold the clutch pedal down while operating the starter weren't you?" (I wasn't).

I had NEVER done that before, in fact I was always taught it was hard on the thrust washers to do that. Since then, every manual transmission car I've come across (alright... the few that still are built with manual gearboxes) require that you hold the clutch pedal down to start the engine.

I'm sure holding the pedal down is for safety reasons (so you won't use the starter motor to drive over your cat, dog, or kids). However, what has changed in engine design that holding the clutch pedal down when cranking is now not only acceptable but required?

 

[TR3driver]

I think it's more a philosophical difference than engine design ... safety is now considered more important than anything else.

Bought a new car some 30 years ago that had that clutch interlock ... within a matter of weeks there was a paperclip jammed into the connector.

 

[Tinkerman]

Gosh when I was taught to drive, many years ago (shortly before the Noah's Arc landed),that was ALWAYS the first thing you did prior to starting the car. Now I suppose they have some sort of interlock system in place so that you have to shove in the clutch. Back then it was so you didn't ruin the starter motor or some of the other bad things listed above. I heard and saw many minor bumps and dings that resulted from trannies not being disengaged prior to cranking them up. Also a lot of folks back then used the tranny as a parking brake rather than the parking brake.

Tinkerman

 

[TR6oldtimer]

I have a 4WD pickup that has a feature to allow you to start the engine with the transmission in gear and the clutch engaged. It works well when you are on a steep hill...

I have also started a TR6 in gear when the clutch line failed, the by synchronizing the gears when shifting, I was able to drive it home.

 

[tomshobby]

I have also started a TR6 in gear when the clutch line failed, the by synchronizing the gears when shifting, I was able to drive it home.

Shirley and I were 200 miles from home on a vacation early this last summer when the pressure plate failed in our TR6 and would not disengage. I used that method and we continued the vacation as planned for four more days.

 

[Dan_Pasta]

Do rhetorical questions require rhetorical answers???

 

[martx-5]

I have also started a TR6 in gear when the clutch line failed, the by synchronizing the gears when shifting, I was able to drive it home.

You could still do that with a car that has the clutch interlock...just push in on the clutch when cranking over the engine. All of the clutch interlocks I've seen are attached to the clutch pedal.

 

[Moseso]

I have also started a TR6 in gear when the clutch line failed, the by synchronizing the gears when shifting, I was able to drive it home.

Everyone's done that at some point, haven't they?
I've done it with my VW bus...
I did it with my BMW cycle...
With the cycle, I couldn't start it in gear -- kick start only -- so I would have to stand next to it at signals, give a running push, leap on and drop it in gear.
It makes one plan much farther ahead for signals!

 

[TR3driver]

I have also started a TR6 in gear when the clutch line failed, the by synchronizing the gears when shifting, I was able to drive it home.

Everyone's done that at some point, haven't they?

Always seemed like a fundamental skill to owning a LBC, to me. I've done it more times than I care to count ... used to always drive my 'murrican car until the clutch cable broke then stop by the store on the way home to pick up a new one. Overall, the TR3 hydraulics have been more reliable ...

 

[dklawson]

Do rhetorical questions require rhetorical answers???

Rhetorically... yes. I titled this thread "rhetorical" because I really didn't expect as many posts as it has received.

My concern here is that I've been teaching my older son to drive a manual gearbox using my Honda Civic. So... unlike me, he's learned that you MUST push in the clutch or the engine won't start. Now I'm going to have to "unlearn" him and get him used to starting the Spitfire with the stick in neutral and his foot "off the clutch".

 

[Andrew Mace]

Doug, for the relatively short period of time (hopefully) that it takes an engine to start, I doubt there's that much long-term stress by pushing in the clutch before starting, even on an old Triumph! I was brought up -- and later taught in Driver Ed. programs (took the full sequence in college and could have taught it in a public school in NY State if I'd also pursued an undergraduate degree in Education) -- to do just that with a manual shift car, simply as a safety precaution. Presumably, though, not enough people were taught that, hence the modern "interlock" systems!

 

[ObiRichKanobi]

Funny side note. Took the TR7 in for it's Safety and IM last year, and the inspector was going to fail it for a "failed clutch safety switch." He swore up and down that the car HAD to have one. I told him to crawl up under the dash and see if there was even a bracket. Didn't find one, and finally gave in and passed it when I handed him all 400+ pages of the Bentley manual I always have in the boot and challenged him to try and find ANY reference to one.

 

[RJS]

Well, I have one funny comment and one observation on this subject.

Fortunately, this first one is kinda funny because, it very easily could have gone the other way. I had been taught to never park a car in gear and use the handbrake. Thus, as a habit, I simply never depressed the clutch to start the car. Well, in 198? my friend and I were driving back from a ski trip in VT in my 1983 VW GTI. My friend took the last leg of the drive and parked the car when we got to his house. Unbeknown to me, he parked it in 1st gear. So, I come out, go to start the car and nearly put him and my car through his garage door (you see, he was standing in front of the car when I turned the key). Yikes!

On another note, my 98 BMW M3 has the clutch/starter interlock. The starter motor will not engage unless the clutch is depressed.

Anyway, ever since that episode in 198?, I ALWAYS do both: check that car is out of gear and clutch depressed. Safety fast I guess...

Bob

 

[Roger]

I've had cars whose batteries were so feeble they couldn't turn over a cold engine and gearbox simultaneously. Pressing the clutch was less drag!

 

[DrEntropy]

I wonder how this "safety feature" would work after th' thing has sat for a winter in gear and th' disc has rusted to th' flywheel...


...not that ~THAT~ would ever happen on a "modern" car. :smirk:

 

[HerronScott]

Doug,

I was taught the opposite which is to start manual shift cars with the clutch pedal depressed. I've never heard of this being hard on the thrust washers and can't imagine why it would be.

Like you, we also keep cars a long time and have never had a clutch/engine issue related to this on any of the British, Japanese or American cars we've owned which have all been manual and we had 350,000 miles on the 626 and 200,000+ miles each on 2 RX-7's.

Scott

 

[DrEntropy]

Well, it *does* assure there's an operator in the control position:

Picture a Porsche dealership, winter morning (1978), 911 parked the night before outside by owner. Its facing a bay door where there is another 911 just a couple feet in the air on a center-post lift. A third 911 is ahead of that in an enclosed wash bay. The "get-ready" kid (college age part timer) is asked to go out and start the outdoor car to warm it up. Dealership principal had gone out to do this and been called away, so the driver's window was open and key was already in the iggy... "Get-ready" goes out, leans thru the window and gives it a crank. C.I.S. is really good, BTW.

Car lights off and high idle in first gear puts it THRU the door and punts the car on the lift into the one in the wash bay. "Three on a Match"!
"Get-ready" may still be an indentured slave.


True story.


That's the ONLY argument I can find in favor of those poxy switches.

 

[dklawson]

Doug,
I've never heard of this being hard on the thrust washers and can't imagine why it would be.

Scott

The argument presented to me for NOT pushing in the clutch pedal when starting an engine was:
The car has been sitting, therefore most/all of the oil has dripped off of the thrust washers.
The clutch is depressed, pushing the crank against those "dry" thrust washers.
The starter is engaged so the crank is spun against those dry thrust washers.

I'm certainly the same age as most of you so I wonder why I was taught this but it doesn't appear to be a common practice. I guess that's another rhetorical question.

 

[PeterK]

I learned the hard way not to press the pedal when starting my 73 911 with early (K-Jetronic) C.I.S. What was that boom? And why won't the car now start anymore. Those airboxes weren't inexpensive btw.

I had more brain cells back then to know enough to not lean in through the window and turn the key. Doh.

 

[DrEntropy]

Funny segue, Peter: Same year in summer the S.O. and I were scootin' north on the Ohio 'pike, 'nother couple in an MGB behind us, and spotted a 911 on the shoulder. Pulled off in front of it, four folks got out and approaced th' Porsche. Asked him if he needed help, he said he was drivin' along and heard a "POP!" and the thing just died. It had our dealership tag frame on it so I told him we knew the folks he got the car from and asked him to open the lid. A backfire apparently popped the rubber boot off the plenum, I suspect the band clamp had been left a bit too loose. Got into the boot of the Elan and got a Phillips 'driver, tightened it and asked him to chime it up. He was so happy he started reachin' for the wallet, I suggested he just tell the tale to the service guys next trip in and tell 'em the guy in the red Lotus fixed it.

He did, on a special trip the following Monday... we got kudos and I got to rib 'em over Brit car folks rescuing their Teutonic sleds from the roadside.