Restoring proper order to spark plug wires

[Geo Hahn]

...On the bright side, for the first time in nearly a year, I've finally got the car running really well... so I'm reluctant to mess with it...

I don't blame you, how could I? I decided to just do the rings and bearings when the engine likely needed an full overhaul. Figured I'd drive it awhile and get around to the big stuff later. That was 1982.

 

[Member 10617]

Jay,

Ha, ha.... I see you have a good sense of humor.

As Secretary Rumsfeld once said, "You go to war with the army you have."

That's life...

George,

Yes... As they say: A bird in the hand... etc., etc... These cars are so much more fun to drive than to work on. And, because my heater works so well, I especially love driving in the winter, unless the roads are covered with ice, snow, or salt. Looks like Virginia is going to get a very mild winter this year, which means I'll be on the road a lot. Actually, its better than in the 90 degree high humidity summertime. "Elective repairs" can come later...

Best wishes to you to in Tucson... One Great town! Your're a lucky guy.

 

[TR3driver]

Ah, in that case I did misunderstand. You can paint me frustrated (and a dissatisfied customer).

Ironically, at the one shop I found (actually my wife found it) that did what we agreed on; it turned out that the manager was cheating the absentee owner. They did good work at a fair price, but when the owner discovered the fraud he naturally fired the manager and (eventually) closed the shop.

 

[Member 10617]

Randall,

I have had similar experiences over the years. What to do? Guess we just ask around, watch carefully, and ask questions.... and .... trust the guys. In my case, I'm dealing with a great shop that does mega-thousand dollar restorations, but will drop things, if possible, to get my little car up and running. And I didn't even buy my car from them....

 

[MikeP]

Based in the initial description starting this thread I think they did exactly what was asked of them. I note it doesn't say, "rearrange the wires", just "move the distributor over two teeth". What this says to me is we all need to remember to very very specific about what we want in situations like this where it's not really fixing a problem but getting back to a more factory appearance.

 

[Member 10617]

Mike,

Good thought.... but actually I did ask them to reposition the wires to the standard order. The reason they probably did not was to save me some money that would be spent on an unnecessary fix. To put this in context, I was having a number of other major things done to the car, and this was pretty "small potatoes." In a year or so, I'll go back and ask them to do the work.

But you are absolutely right. When dealing with a shop, it is necessary to be very specific. In fact, the shop I deal with always prepares with the client a list of work to be done before anything begins.

 

[poolboy]

At my request, the shop where I have work done on my TR3 repositioned my distributor two teeth so it is more in line with the block and gives me some room for setting the advance.

I also asked them to return my spark plug wires to the proper sequence (an earlier engine rebuild resulted in the wires being moved forward one connection on the distributor cap. Don't know why?) When I got the car back, the wires had not been repositioned... and the explanation was that it wasn't necessary.... etc., etc.

OK. So if I want to do this myself, what is involved?

Heavens to Betsy ! Is there a simpler sportscar engine to work with than a 4 cylinder Triumph ?
How can the shop be criticized ?
It would be impossible to meet the owners request in this case.Reclocking the distributor by only 2 teeth wouldn't allow the wires to come out right. And, conversely making the wires come out right would require more than a 2 tooth adjustment. Maybe they flipped a coin to see which they should do to the TR3 and moved on to other cars in the shop.
These cars are so simple that they just aren't for everyone.
Ed, consider selling this car and be content with the memories.

 

[Member 10617]

Poolboy,

Coin flipped.... 2 tooth adjustment won.

 

[CJD]

OMG...Just when I thought it was safe to get back in the water!

 

[Geo Hahn]

...Here's an idea -- we could try a real-time Forum tech session to reposition your distributor and wires.

...The procedure for both you and me is to get the engine to TDC #1 compression, remove the dizzy, pull out the gear and reinsert in the correct position (some trial and error may occur) and then reinstall the distributor...

The proposed session never occured here but I did pull the distributor and reposition it to a correct alignment. For the insatiably curious here are the steps;

The goal is to get the shaft of the vacuum advance parallel to the block as usually seen in factory photos:

Mine was off enough to bug me:

Looks like it needs to go 24° CW:

With engine at #1 TDC I removed the dizzy (including the pedestal base & tach drive), pulled the shaft out and reinserted after rotating it 24° (more or less):

Hmmm... looks a lot like the diagram Randall showed.

Reassembly has it as Coventry intended. Bugs me no more!

 

[TR3driver]

Was your "24 degrees more or less" one tooth, or two? I'm guessing one ...

 

[Member 10617]

Just to close the loop, since I started this overlong thread. My shop guys did the same thing for me, George, and now the distributor, rebuilt by Advanced Distributors, faces the same way as yours. They moved it two teeth. This made it considerably easier to properly set the timing required by the changed advance curve in the rebuilt distributor.

All is well and I'm putting miles on the car in this unusually mild later winter/early spring.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Was your "24 degrees more or less" one tooth, or two? I'm guessing one ...

I thought it was two as I moved it some, decided it wasn't enough and moved it again. Having said that though, 2 seems like a lot for just a 24* correction.

Guess if I know how many teeth are on that bottom gear I would know the answer.

 

[TR3driver]

Guess if I know how many teeth are on that bottom gear I would know the answer.

I count 16 in your photo above.

 

[Geo Hahn]

But I think the relevant gear is the one on the cam shaft (helical?) which may or may not have a different number of teeth.

The gear in the pic is for the tach drive. However, 16 teeth would work out to 22.5* per tooth which would be about right for a one tooth adjustment.

 

[TR3driver]

You didn't turn the camshaft, so the relevant gear is the one at the bottom of the distributor drive (which engages with the camshaft).

 

[Geo Hahn]

Ah, the penny drops!

I was thinking the gear was at the end of that long shaft but of course all that does is drive the oil pump -- I wuz lookin' at the gear the whole time. Yes, I obviously moved it one tooth.