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Tips
Tips

Restoration tips, some from experience.

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Simon TR4a

Simon TR4a

Jedi Knight
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Nearing completion of my rebuild I look back on the project and realise I could have done several things better or smarter.
I know you have all seen this kind of advice before, and I had also, but some points I did not really take literally enough. So here are a few things that might help someone else:

1) Do not sell or discard ANYTHING until the car is finished.
I sold off a perfect windshield frame as I had two, but I had not removed the rubber seal from the base of the one I kept, and there was rust underneath. It cost more to repair that rust than I was paid for the good frame I sold!

2) Labels for ziploc bags of parts are best written on paper and put inside the bag, Much easier to read than marker on masking tape on the outside. Describe the items in as much detail as possible, NOT "rack mount bolts" (steering rack or luggage rack) NOT "interior miscellaneouis", there is no part of your car that is "miscellaneous". Two years later it is sometimes tough to identify things.

3) Buy mounting hardware kits from your parts supplier instead of buying the bits separately; it may be cheaper, you will certainly have tyhe correct fasteners.

4) Try to keep the garage and parts inventory as organised as possible (something I'm not good at) as it can save a lot of time not having to look for stuff.

5)Be patient in selecting a painter. You will be amazed at the range of prices you will be quoted when asking for the same job on the same car.
It is important you have the painter inspect the car carefully and discuss in deatail what you want done, and how soon you expect the work completed.
If the shop does collision work they may charge a lower rate to work on your car during slower times, but if you are paying the regular shop rate you should expect your job to have the same priority as the other work, and be finished in a few weeks. (If extra work that wasn't originally obvious, like hidden rust, becomes necessary, you will have to be prepared to pay extra, or your job will be put aside in favour of more profitable work.)

Hope this helps a few people to keep projects on track.
Simon.
 
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If the shop does collision work they may charge a lower rate to work on your car during slower times, but if you are paying the regular shop rate you should expect your job to have the same priority as the other work, and be finished in a few weeks. (If extra work that wasn't originally obvious, like hidden rust, becomes necessary, you will have to be prepared to pay extra, or your job will be put aside in favour of more profitable work.)


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Simon, you got this right! I worked in a shop for three years that did both damage repair and restoration work. I did the mechanical work and saw a lot with regard to the body/paint shop. I could not believe what some expected with no idea of how much work it involved and what they thought they should pay.

One thing I might add is that it might be a good idea to find someone that has a reputation for restoration. Sometimes repair work is not done with the same result in mind. Note - I said sometimes. A good restorer realizes that the work is for the long term and not to just last the life of the rest of the vehicle.
 
Ziploc bag labels: I label and describe dismounted parts on the back of old business cards then drop the card into the bag. These are durable and hold up to the beating and oil staining that is bound to occur.
 
Digital camera, digital camera, digital camera........

Pics before and during disassembly are far more important than after. Except for insurance of course!
 
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If the shop does collision work they may charge a lower rate


[/ QUOTE ]

I would advise anyone to avoid a shop that primarily does collision work if at all possible. I know some of you guys have worked in body and paint shops over the years and may disagree with this opinion but I have found that collision and spray shops are not interested in taking on a "restoration". They might take the job on but invariably will regret it, often will end up doing a lousy job because they want it and you out of their shop, yesterday. Anytime you paint an LBC you will always, yes always, find something that you weren't counting on, a little rust, some fatigued metal, a ding or two in the engine bay. Collision shops don't want to fool with this, will shot you a cheap price and everyone will be unhappy. The guy that last painted my TR6 waves to me with his middle finger even to this day.
Find someone that understands what you want, will charge you somewhat more and is not in a hurry to get it out of his shop so he can get that Chrysler Minivan in that Allstate wants done today. Step up, pay the price and take it.


Bill
 
There is no shortcut or price reduction for doing quality work. If you want it done right, you will invariably have to wait and you definitely will have to pay.

I agree about choosing a restoration shop versus a collision shop that may want just quick flat rate jobs and spinning them in and right back out is their secret to success.
 
Hi Simon,

Your tips for restoration projects are right on the money, as are the other additions.

Might I also add:

Have all of a 3-car garage available for the project. Well, okay, that's not realistic for many of us. So how about a 2-car garage? Any less space and you will spend a lot of time getting out of your own way.

Also, build lots of storage shelving before you start working on the car.

Plan to "farm out" jobs you are unsure of doing yourself: media blasting/stripping, final body work/painting, frame straightening & painting/powdercoating, chrome plating, gearbox/OD work, differential repair, suspension tuning, engine building, auto electrics, etc. Be realistic about your strengths and limitations. Early on, get to know shops that might help you with the aspects you think you will be farming out.

Gather and read service manuals and parts catalogs in advance, as well as general and specific restoration books.

Take auto mechanics, welding and body shop classes at a local community college.

I'd also echo what Paul said: "Digital camera, digital camera, digital camera...".

A dedicated notebook for drawings, descriptions and self-reminders is a useful tool, too.

Finally, a high-limit credit card or two comes in very handy.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Finding a good shop that won't mind restoration work might take some digging. A good place to start might be local car shows. Any kind of car show but Hot Rod shows seem pretty prevalent all over the country. If your lucky you will find a guy like the one I use. He is mostly a one man shop, hasn't advertised for 20 years so letting your fingers do the walking won't help you find him. He still has a pretty healthy back log of work too. All from word of mouth and those 'in the know'. There is usually a three month wait to get into his shop and sometimes it takes a personal recommendation from one of his usual customers. Very well known in the national Porsche community and its always interesting to see what is in his shop. Last time I was there he was touching up rock chips on a Lamborghini Countach LP5000S. The other nice thing about finding people like this is that they usually have a pretty low hourly rate as they don't have much overhead. You just have to be willing to wait.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I agree about choosing a restoration shop versus a collision shop that may want just quick flat rate jobs and spinning them in and right back out is their secret to success.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree as well. Where I am, the choice might be a bit easier inasmuch as a lot of the true "collision" shops won't even talk to you about something old that might need a lot of fussy work and isn't covered by a big insurance settlement and out the door in two days! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

Further to that, a couple of shops I know are primarily collision shops but also do (very good) restoration work. But they'll tell you right up front a: book well in advance, and b: don't expect the job to be done in record time!
 
[ QUOTE ]
don't expect the job to be done in record time!

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Heh, heh... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Once again, the effects of Reality TV and our "instant gratification" society.

I can sort of hear it now... "Hey, if Chip Foose can restore a car completely from the ground up in 1 week and Paul Jr. can build a custom motorcycle from scratch in 2 weeks, why will it take 7 months just for my LBC's body work and paint?"

It also occurs to me, I wonder how many people who's cars are stolen find themselves hopin' and prayin' it's a prank and the car is actually gettin' "Overhaulin'"ed... Not just chopped up for parts in a dusty local warehouse. Well, folks, what're the odds?

Reality vs. Reality TV.
 
Where in the heck was Chip Foose when Alan and I were trying to get some simple paint work done compared to what he does???

Odds are probably not good for the high majority of the missing cars to be "Overhauled". They've been hauled for sure, but not overhauled.
 
I've noticed they do not take close shots or leave the camera on one spot for long. Makes me wonder just how well the job was done in that short of time. I wonder what the paint is going to look like after it cures for a few months.
Also, do they give the owner a bucket of nuts and bolts that they just did not have time to put back!
 
Hi Simon:
Thanks for your thoughts. Other posts contributed very well. All this should be gathered together and put together in an easy to read manual for restoration. Gosh when you think about the experience out there it is mind boggling.
My tip is as follows: I built a data base for all of the parts using the Stanpart Catalog as the reference. my experience is rebuilding is that when it comes time to put it all together I couldn't remember where I put the parts! This time everything went into the data base. I have a series of twelve rubbermade tubs, cleverly labled 1 through 12. The parts go into the tubs in ziplock bags, yep I like that idea, also like the business card idea, and the bags go into one tub or another. Every part has a code, FU is fuel related, FS is front suspension and so on when I am working on an assembly I run a "sort" on the code I need and it tells me which tubs all the parts are in. I did not try to put all the same related parts in the same tub, they are kind of put into the tub that has the most room. Bearing in mind the old "garbage in, garbage out" rule you really have to be diligent about putting the info into the computer. When I have had trouble with the system is when I got lazy about logging stuff into the data base. Anyhow thats my system and the next car I do will get the same treatment, besides it keeps me off the streets and out of the bars. No British Pubs around here anyway.
Cheers, Tinkerman
 
I nearly forgot because it was so long ago, but I put an Excel spreadsheet together for the body shop with complete list of everything to be done to the car. I put the part numbers for every part to be installed by it's operation and tagged each bag or box clearly as to what it was, from the windshield to the body grommets.

This resulted in a huge pile of boxes in his shop, but nothing was opened early or lost during the entire job because they had a repair order to follow. Any of my old parts that were still useful were put back n the boxes and sealed back up, so when I came to pick up the car, everything was neat and ready to go.

I guess the experience gained from the thousands of RO's that I wrote for service customers over the years finally paid off.

It also gave him a neat way to give me an estimate for all the work that I wanted done and I knew what my parts cost would be. That is if I ever fill that column in!!
 
We are in the computer generation has to be useful to what we do, more thoughts would be great. I'm thinking rebuild order, parts needed, parts on hand, notes on what works and what doesn't. Parts tracking. Above all, experience from other rebuilders, wow what a tresure trove.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers, Tinkerman
 
[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed they do not take close shots or leave the camera on one spot for long. Makes me wonder just how well the job was done in that short of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

As one who edits cable TV car shows for a living, (among many other subjects), quick shots are the result of "short-attention-span" desired demographics, the 18-34 year olds. If you wonder why TV shows are often cut so quickly, that's the reason, (as well as pinhead TV execs). Don't get me started!
 
If you plan to do most of the put back together part, after the paint job, cover any area you are working in with soft bath towels. Buy your own, the wife will only let you have hers if you redo the bathroom.
Second best advise, get a tape and die set and put which ever one you need in a drill and run it in and out of places that have way to much paint on the threads, ie, transmission tunnel, finder brackets at the front, seat sliding frames, and anywhere you can find. The funny thing is they are mostly the same size that are in the body shell. Save alot of headackes. Wayne
 
Hi again,

"Painter's tape", the stuff that sticks pretty well but peels back off without leaving any residue so long as it's not on too long, is also a good way to protect freshly painted edges during reassembly.

However, don't directly tape together any parts that will be stored for a while, unless you want a really miserable job getting all the old, dried glue off! Wrap the parts with a piece of plain plastic, bubble wrap or something else first. This applies to any sort of tape that might be used.

Twist ties and safety wire are also both handy for labelling or keeping small parts together.

I agree about the taps & dies - they are next to essential -with one caveat. I think it's best to use old, somewhat dull ones when just chasing and cleaning threads. Otherwise sharp, new ones can undercut existing threads to the point the fasteners are too loose. There are special "restoration" taps & dies available from some sources like Eastwood. But the Scotsman in me just uses old, sorta dull ones (and can't see paying extra for pre-dulled ones!).

After assembly, I coat any bare metal with clear coat, too. This helps seal up things like nuts and bolts, for example. Larger items can be sprayed, of course. For the little stuff and a convenient small "dispenser" of clear coat, try stealing She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed's clear finger nail polish. (It might be safer to just buy your own... even if a little embarassing at the store or it raises an eyebrow or two at home.) The stuff is simply a type of lacquer and tends to be a lot cheaper than the clear coat in those little auto paint touchup dispensers.

Yep, I have spreadsheets set up, too, but it's mostly for parts needed and sources, not really an inventory of everything I have on hand (egad, I ain't that organized!). Unfortunately it's set up to automatically total the costs so far, which I try to avoid looking at for as long as possible.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
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