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Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NOT

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Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Yes a complete rebuild is always the best but....
I have successfully replaced rings and bearings and gaskets with a home cylinder honing and the engine ran great for years. I have also reused good clutches, then again I have gotten crap clutches new from vendors. A p/plate the came undone comes to mind or carbon release bearings that evaporate in a week.
Of course I have been messing with these cars since I was a kid and had no money so I learned how to keep it on the road with my $37.50 a week pay check /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

There were lots of things I did back when out of necessity (sometimes get me to tell you the story of the $50 Studebaker truck I 'rescued' from a farmer's field so I'd have transportation to college classes!) & my granddad's words always seemed to come back to haunt me...now, at a different place in my life, I can look at things differently...we all do what we have to at various points in our journey.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Tony, I shudder to think of some of the things I did back in the days of no money for transportation, and the creative solutions employed to keep something on the road.
Now, I wouldn't consider doing less than a complete job on a rebuild. I've seen the results of penny pinching, and how it can cost much more in the long run.
But, there are many folks today that are in the same boat I was 40 years ago, and I applaud their efforts to maintain their cars on a shoestring.
At least with most LBC's, it's do-able with a fair amount of success.
Jeff
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

I admit as well: Guilty as charged... "A lick and a promise" me paternal granma would say... A "round tuit" in other terms. But it's now been forty years, not ten or fifteen, since these cars were released from England. Time has its way. Half-right the things will run. How long they'll run is the question.

I've certainly my "Bag o' Tricks" to call upon but: if it's gotta run on the key, it needs doing right once. A bodge will bite ya, no if's, and's or but's.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

The engine in our little cars is the Heart and Sole. It is the sole reason for their exhistance. Without a decient engine might as well get rid of it. Let anything else go but the engine and the brakes. Let it rust, let it be missing parts, heck. Let it anything but an engine and brakes.

Engine
Brakes
Clutch
Tranny
Rear end
Lights
Tires
Stearing

and on and on, not necessarly always in the order even. But I think engine always comes first.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Frank,

What do you need to have in order to be able to do "home cylinder honing"?
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]What do you need to have in order to be able to do "home cylinder honing"? [/QUOTE]

Electric drill & cylinder hone (you can pick one up at ant auto store)
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

A Cylinder hone. Available at your local auto parts store. Not expensive.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Home cylinder honing is what I meant by deglazing. Three spring loaded stones driven by a hand drill.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]we all do what we have to at various points in our journey[/QUOTE]

Tony,

You made the point that I obviously failed to make adequately when I asked the question originally. I think we all know what is the RIGHT thing to do. But how can someone who is at that early point in the journey, often encountered by college students et al, i.e. severely strapped for funds, get his car back on the road with a reasonable level of confidence?

To illustrate the point hypothetically, could anyone in the know give me a rough quote rounded to the nearest $100 for the following case. (I hope this does not violate any of Basil's forum rules):

I bring you a 1275 Midget engine, stripped. It ran when removed but it clearly needs work. Suppose you look at it and say it needs (freely paraphrased from Hap's excellent list posted earlier):

<ul>[*]Bore cylinders for oversized pistons.
[*]Line bore block.
[*]Grind crank.
[*]Pistons, Rings, Connecting rods and ARP rod bolts.
[*]Camshaft and lifters.
[*]Valves, valve seats, springs, seals, guides.
[*]Skim cut both the head and the block.
[*]Replace freeze plugs.
[*]Drill out oil galley plugs, clean inside, replace.
[*]Wash block (three times).
[*]Clean, bead blast, and paint all engine sheet-metal.
[*]Gasket set.
[*]Timing chain & gears.
[*]Reassemble all.[/list]
Note that I am not asking for any carburettor or ignition work in this case, just to keep it simple.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Sidesteping your question for the minute Chris I will give my voice in this:
When a half-ass job is done on an LBC (which I have done dozens of times as a student and father of small children) you need to remember just what the mission of the car is. If I just needed something to get me 6 miles per day to school and last until my summer job started then I would just replace the rod bearings that were rattling so badly and drive slowly to school- never exceeding 3000 RPM and the engines would orten last for a very long time. One time I did a VERY nice rebuild on a 948 but had to sell the car almost immediately since I had spent everything I had to rebuild it (I know that it was stupid). I told the buyer that it only had about 200 miles on it and to break it in nicely. He said OK and then proceeded to motor off down the street in second gear at about 5000RPM. Two weeks later he called and said that it was using oil! Oh well.
If you don't abuse it or race it a less than perfect rebuild will last for a while in these very solid cast-iron engines.
Bill
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Parts and machine work $1000. No telling what a shop would get to do all and return it.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Am reluctant to step in this but will anyhow: The job would be in the area of $3K+ in my shop. It WOULD include carb and ignition, as that's part and parcel of a rebuild in my book. Because there is an implied warranty the job would also include a break-in under my care. Wouldn't matter if it was already disassembled or in a lump, either... actually preferable I do the teardown: "Forensics."

Doing it as a DIY hobbyist job is much different than commercially, I know. We can't (and shouldn't) expect a pro wrench to cut corners for the sake of "economy". No such thing when someting goes wrong. There's no disclaimer strong enough to keep it from being the wrench's problem. No builder I know of (in business for any length of time) would reassemble with anything other than trusted new bits, everthing machined to spec's or better.

The "minimum" is the same as the "maximum"... build it for the purpose it will fulfill.


My tuppence.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Chris, the cost of these things will vary from place to place both around the country and around the state. Contact T-Hoff with your list and have them give you their prices. Also contact Walker Automotive off of Six Forks Road. If Frank is still in the machine shop there, he's rebuilt engines and heads for me going back about 30 years. He's not exclusive to A-series engines but he's worked on them many times both for street and race cars.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Doug, Thanks.

I will bear in mind those names.

This question wasn't for me. I was floating a boat on behalf of "others". Although not exactly independently wealthy I am reasonably comfortable from a financial point of view and only have to persuade the CFO (wife).
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

I will never gain a pat on the back by many budget "just get me by " crowd, I fully expect that. Everyday I get phone calls from people who have taken the low road and regret it now because of some problem they are having. Our budgets many times dictate how we approach a project such as a engine rebuild. I will say this though, people alot of times don't approach projects correctly, alot of engine components are reused and machining operations not done on nothing more than a guess, in my business that's not a game I can play. I don't expect the budget-minded LBC owner to be a customer, well atleast not at this stage in their hobby. For me it all comes down to measuring specs, most DIYers rebuild a engine without the use of micrometers, bore guages, or even measuring anything, for me this would be Russian roulette, it's not what I do. My shop's existence is single fold, it's for the owner who wants it done to the highest standards and nothing left to chance, no stones left unturned and that's what I try to provide. Is this the cheap way, not hardly. I don't do machine work that is unwarrated, but I absolutely check everything. The MGB engine I rebuilding right now for instance, needs to be rebored, but the crank and main housing bores are fine, so no need for a crank grinding and line boring, but it took a hour of measuring everything to determine this. Almost every set of connecting rods I check are out of spec, so every engine I do gets new rod bolts and connecting rod's big ends resized for example. I would say atleast half the 1275 engine cores I disassemble have broken rings from excessive cylinder wear, stick a set of new rings back in the worn bores does nothing more than buy someone a little time and cost more in the long run. So in short, my job is to take the "high road for my customers, thats why they come to me, and thats what my advice will alway tend to be, and after nearly 100 engine rebuilds I've come to know what fails our our motors and what last. I build engines for people who want the very best and alot of time one of my engines cost about the same as you could buy a running LBC for. As for myself, I'm not a wealthy person even though a fair amount of my customers are, personally I pick and choose my own personal battles with my LBC street and race car very carefully, and the main reason I can afford to race and own well running LBCs is that fact I taught myself how to do the job right. I always tell people my experiance of what not to do comes from lessons learned the hard way and the learning never ends either. What it all boils down to to is our hobby is filled with many different people with many different agendas, my advice to anyone is do as much as you can afford the right way and hopefully this will lead to enjoying the hobby of owning and driving LBC, but if you take the attitude of skimping to point it become an addiction then you will always spend more in the long run, spending alot is not the goal, spending wisely is.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Again, Hap provides a good read and food for serious thought.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Hear, Hear, Hap..kinda sounds like my Grandaddy's epitaph!
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Hmmm. OK.
So, if you can do it right then don't do it?
or.. if you can do it right... then just plan on having to do it again?

I cut a few corners on my Midget. I do not regret it. It cost me a little more time/money later, but if I had waited until I had the funds to do it perfectly then I probably would have lost interest. I guess it is a personality flaw.
 
Re: Replace it all while you have it out ... OR NO

Trevor - I'm in the "do it right the 1st time" crowd (though I have been known to cut a corner in the past & probably will do so in the future); however, I believe its up to the owner's confidence in his mechanical abilities - & funds - & dependance on the car; those all 3 play together on our toys....I do all my own work on my LBC's & they're not in my 'transportation' equation so it doesn't bother me to redo something since I consider my labor free & theraputic......heck, if you look in all my cars, you'll find boxes of new & used parts that belong to that car to repair something I want to repair on it at some point because I know it needs that repair or just because...

However, on my family daily drivers its down to the dealer to do it right the first time, regardless of cost.
 
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