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Removing carbon
- Thread starter lawguy
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OP
lawguy
Jedi Knight
Offline
Thanks for your help, but let me be more specific.
I have the engine completely apart...and by completely, I mean there are no two separable parts still together. This is a 30 year old engine, but it has very little internal wear, probably because it is off a roto-tiller that got used 2 hours tops each season.
The last couple of times I tilled with it, it blew (blue) smoke like a nervous AA member. I figured, logically- rings and/or piston. Guess what. The piston and bore and still in standard specs and the rings are very good (I'm replacing anyway since its apart...and 10 bucks).
Where did the blue smoke come from? I discovered the breather (one way valve) was completely shut off, which caused a pressurized crankcase....leading to oil being forced past the rings and even up the valvetrain (depending on how long it went on, probably contributed to the remarkable condition of the bore).
Long story long- it's been burning oil for a while and therefore, there is alot of carbon in the combustion chamber and around the valves. I took the head off and cleaned that like a son of a gun...mineral spirits, brushes, and SOS pads (for a nice polish). The only reason I hesitate to do that around the valves is that the confines are tighter and the valves have to seal down there, so I don't want to risk scratching. I'm going to lap the valves, but I don't want to have to replace a seat or two. I would like to find a chemical or something else that will remove the carbon, but leave the seats and Al passages unscathed. I have heard of using an aluminum scraper. Any other suggestions?
BTW- if anyone has an old 2 seat go-cart frame you want to get rid of, let me know. I'm toying with designing my own, but I would not mind fixing up something. I want to do a build up rather than just buy something both for the fun of it and as a father/son (8 years) activity we can both learn from. My son has already learned a bunch about how engines work.
Thanks all for your help!
I have the engine completely apart...and by completely, I mean there are no two separable parts still together. This is a 30 year old engine, but it has very little internal wear, probably because it is off a roto-tiller that got used 2 hours tops each season.
The last couple of times I tilled with it, it blew (blue) smoke like a nervous AA member. I figured, logically- rings and/or piston. Guess what. The piston and bore and still in standard specs and the rings are very good (I'm replacing anyway since its apart...and 10 bucks).
Where did the blue smoke come from? I discovered the breather (one way valve) was completely shut off, which caused a pressurized crankcase....leading to oil being forced past the rings and even up the valvetrain (depending on how long it went on, probably contributed to the remarkable condition of the bore).
Long story long- it's been burning oil for a while and therefore, there is alot of carbon in the combustion chamber and around the valves. I took the head off and cleaned that like a son of a gun...mineral spirits, brushes, and SOS pads (for a nice polish). The only reason I hesitate to do that around the valves is that the confines are tighter and the valves have to seal down there, so I don't want to risk scratching. I'm going to lap the valves, but I don't want to have to replace a seat or two. I would like to find a chemical or something else that will remove the carbon, but leave the seats and Al passages unscathed. I have heard of using an aluminum scraper. Any other suggestions?
BTW- if anyone has an old 2 seat go-cart frame you want to get rid of, let me know. I'm toying with designing my own, but I would not mind fixing up something. I want to do a build up rather than just buy something both for the fun of it and as a father/son (8 years) activity we can both learn from. My son has already learned a bunch about how engines work.
Thanks all for your help!
Offline
Have you tried the "Easy-Off" oven cleaner? It's likely not the same as it was "back-when" it worked for just this application, but worth a try. Used to put it (a gel-like compound) on the buildup, wait a while and rub with fine steel wool... it'd clean up like new. Haven't tried this in many years, so "your mileage may vary."
Nunyas
Yoda
Offline
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif an interesting method for removing carbon....
I fyou have access to a "sonic cleaner" that may do the trick for getting rid of those carbon deposits. That'd probably have the leat potential for damaging components. Outside of that I can only think of scrapping the stuff away with various abrassive pads and/or flat edged scrapers. Of the pads, I think I'd start with green scratchies and go from there.
I fyou have access to a "sonic cleaner" that may do the trick for getting rid of those carbon deposits. That'd probably have the leat potential for damaging components. Outside of that I can only think of scrapping the stuff away with various abrassive pads and/or flat edged scrapers. Of the pads, I think I'd start with green scratchies and go from there.
OP
lawguy
Jedi Knight
Offline
Ken, that's downright funny. It was a simpler, more adventerous time.
The Easy-Off worked wonders. I sprayed it on carefully and let it set for about 5 to 10 minutes (I was a little cautious because it said not to use on aluminum). I then used a stiff cleaning brush and the carbon came off very well. It took about three applications, but the valve seat area is clean as new. I am still working on the intake and exhaust ports, but they are coming clean...the intake alot easier than the exhaust, of course.
I even smoothed and polished the combustion chamber on the head. It's now a mirror. Likely such affection has never been slathered on a thirty year old Briggs. Just wait until after I polish the intake and exhaust ports....it's a sickness...even if the best I can hope for is the original power rating.
But then, there is the methanol conversion...
The Easy-Off worked wonders. I sprayed it on carefully and let it set for about 5 to 10 minutes (I was a little cautious because it said not to use on aluminum). I then used a stiff cleaning brush and the carbon came off very well. It took about three applications, but the valve seat area is clean as new. I am still working on the intake and exhaust ports, but they are coming clean...the intake alot easier than the exhaust, of course.
I even smoothed and polished the combustion chamber on the head. It's now a mirror. Likely such affection has never been slathered on a thirty year old Briggs. Just wait until after I polish the intake and exhaust ports....it's a sickness...even if the best I can hope for is the original power rating.
But then, there is the methanol conversion...
Paul Johnson
Jedi Warrior
Offline
You could also find someone with a bead blaster. On cars with the engine still intact, the trick is to blast in finely ground walnut shells. Since you have the head off, I'd blast if with plastic beads.
OP
lawguy
Jedi Knight
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
LG, Comet Kart Sales, down in Greenfield, has all kinds of go fast goodies for that Briggs, if you really want to get carried away!
No financial interest, and all that. Mark is just a friend of mine.
Jeff
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, when I started this project, I found all kinds of stuff out there, but for this 40 year old Briggs (said 30 earlier- then I decoded the code #- date of man. 9/23/66), just making it as new is fine. It's for a simple "yard cart" no formal racing.....but after I catch the bug...who knows.
The entire block is now completely de-carboned...including the dreaded exhaust port. All I used was the aforementioned Easy-Off, brushes (nylon and brass), and carb cleaner.
It took me longer than I expected, but finally tonight, it's time for electrolytic rust removal on the sheetmetal parts.
LG, Comet Kart Sales, down in Greenfield, has all kinds of go fast goodies for that Briggs, if you really want to get carried away!
No financial interest, and all that. Mark is just a friend of mine.
Jeff
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, when I started this project, I found all kinds of stuff out there, but for this 40 year old Briggs (said 30 earlier- then I decoded the code #- date of man. 9/23/66), just making it as new is fine. It's for a simple "yard cart" no formal racing.....but after I catch the bug...who knows.
The entire block is now completely de-carboned...including the dreaded exhaust port. All I used was the aforementioned Easy-Off, brushes (nylon and brass), and carb cleaner.
It took me longer than I expected, but finally tonight, it's time for electrolytic rust removal on the sheetmetal parts.
OP
lawguy
Jedi Knight
Offline
The engine is done and looks and runs great, however, as I may have mentioned elsewhere, the project has taken a change of direction. Rather than a plain old go kart, We are building a replica (more of an homage, really) of one of these:
It is a 1920 Briggs and Stratton Flyer.
I say homage rather than replica because of the more modern engine and the fact I may ditch the "motor wheel" and drive one of the rear wheels...but the "motor wheel" is unique.
I most definitely amy replicating the wood chassis (with more modern axles), though I may use oak rather than the original ash. I am also crafting original style bent-wood seats. My son and I are having fun with this and we are taking our time.
It is a 1920 Briggs and Stratton Flyer.
I say homage rather than replica because of the more modern engine and the fact I may ditch the "motor wheel" and drive one of the rear wheels...but the "motor wheel" is unique.
I most definitely amy replicating the wood chassis (with more modern axles), though I may use oak rather than the original ash. I am also crafting original style bent-wood seats. My son and I are having fun with this and we are taking our time.
Baz
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
Have you tried the "Easy-Off" oven cleaner?
[/ QUOTE ]
After a previous discussion about the potential carbon build up in my chambers, and looking at the state of my plugs this weekend (very sooty), I've decided to take my head off and give it a bit of a clean, as well as weaken my mixture.
I was asking at work about something to quickly and easily remove the muck I'm likely to find in there and someone else mentioned "Off".
I'll use it if there is nothing else that I can buy at the local parts store, but is there a 'carbon removing' bottle of magic stuff anywhere?
Have you tried the "Easy-Off" oven cleaner?
[/ QUOTE ]
After a previous discussion about the potential carbon build up in my chambers, and looking at the state of my plugs this weekend (very sooty), I've decided to take my head off and give it a bit of a clean, as well as weaken my mixture.
I was asking at work about something to quickly and easily remove the muck I'm likely to find in there and someone else mentioned "Off".
I'll use it if there is nothing else that I can buy at the local parts store, but is there a 'carbon removing' bottle of magic stuff anywhere?
AngliaGT
Great Pumpkin
Offline
One thing that I'd never have thought of is what a really good mechanic in Denver told me to do when my Suburban was carboned up.
He recommended putting one quart of Diesel fuel in
the gas tank for every 10 gallons of gasoline.
Our Suburban has a 42 gallon tank(!),so I added 1 gallon of Diesel.
I went from a little over 7MPG,to over 10.
You probably only want to do this when you are doing
either enthusiastic driving,or running for extended miles down the freeway (or under load).
- Doug
He recommended putting one quart of Diesel fuel in
the gas tank for every 10 gallons of gasoline.
Our Suburban has a 42 gallon tank(!),so I added 1 gallon of Diesel.
I went from a little over 7MPG,to over 10.
You probably only want to do this when you are doing
either enthusiastic driving,or running for extended miles down the freeway (or under load).
- Doug
Keoke
Great Pumpkin
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
brake fluid sprayed in to the carbies
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously?
Cold, hot, just blast it in there, how much?
That sounds like something I could do easy enough, it's gonna make some smoke right? tnx K
[/ QUOTE ]
OH my gosh yes it makes a heap of smoke so you need to do it out on the back 40. A fine spray when the engine is hot will work just fine.As to how much for each shot stop when the revs start to drop and let them pick back up.Run engine at ~ 2500 RPM---Keoke
[ QUOTE ]
brake fluid sprayed in to the carbies
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously?
Cold, hot, just blast it in there, how much?
That sounds like something I could do easy enough, it's gonna make some smoke right? tnx K
[/ QUOTE ]
OH my gosh yes it makes a heap of smoke so you need to do it out on the back 40. A fine spray when the engine is hot will work just fine.As to how much for each shot stop when the revs start to drop and let them pick back up.Run engine at ~ 2500 RPM---Keoke