tony barnhill said:
I believe you - I've just gotta see how they fit!
Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted 15 December 2006 at 05:32:26 UK time
tony you bought up a good point on the three carb question .but surely i would have thought that at the factory mgb and mgc bonnets are of the same lenght and width ,if the alloy frame was not available ,stick a steel one on it,but has any one got a alloy one as the 3 i had where all steel and all came from late cars ,regards stephen
Ray Harpur
Surrey
United Kingdom
Posted 15 December 2006 at 14:45:36 UK time
Steve
I have a ally bonnet with the centre brace on it.
The brace itself looks like it will only fit a mgc because it follows the shape of the bonnet which is different to mgb.It also has a bonnet stay bracket which looks like by the welds it was factory fitted,which is attached to the left side of the brace,which would mean the bonnet prop would be half the length ,which i am missing.
It is interesting that Tony said these were fitted
to MGC GTS,does anybody have any pictures of the
inside of the bonnet on these cars.
Regards
Ray
Fred Wright
Pennsylvania
USA
wright22@bellatlantic.net Posted 15 December 2006 at 16:46:13 UK time
Ray,
Sorry(!!!)/Hate(!!!!) to ask but was curious to know/check and make sure that your bonnet is, in fact, alloy(aluminum). All of the factory originally bonnets supplied on cars in the US, that I have ever seen, never had a center brace (to the best of my recollection). However, having said that, I know that whom ever was making new bonnets in the late 60's also made replacement steel MGC bonnets because I owned one for a car I was repairing. If it wasn't the late 60's, it was the very early 70's. Like 1971 or 1972. Just curious if these center brace bonnets might be the steel bonnets made back then. Short of the ones made by Heritage a few years back, I do not remember seeing another steel bonnet around although I will admit, I have not tried to lift each one that I have seen. Guess I will have to start walking around the shows with a magnet?!?!?!
Fred
Tony Giordano
USA
mgctony@aol.com Posted 15 December 2006 at 23:58:04 UK time
The bonnets in this discussion were totally alloy and the brace was recessed into the tear drop (alloy as well...no way it was a B retro fit...there are some bonnets that did come through the factory without a tear drop as well)....
If Chattam put one(X-BRACER) on VHY 5H in the day, then it was most likely a works run on the configuration as he owned it all from then....would make sense on a works GTS, as they may have needed the extra strength for use and abuse with those webbers at those punishing team outings. As you remember RMO had two different bonnets: front open and rear.
The reason I know about the 3rd carb and the brace is that i had fitted the X-brace bonnet to my tricarb and it would not shut...the race car with its 3 X 45's won by default.
Cherio ,
Tony G
Tony giordano
USA
mgctony@aol.com Posted 16 December 2006 at 06:04:50 UK time
Fred,
You really don't need a magnet to tell the differece between a steel and ally bonnet, you just need to pick it up.
The steel bonnets were made as a replacement by the factory due to the many problems of accident damage in shipping and the like...that's why they fit wonderfully and better than the ally ones, but did not help the front end weight problem...the C's days were numbered by that time and parts were required by law to be supplied/supported for a few years after initial production.
Note:If the factory dedicated the same time to making the car better than quick fixes we would have a much better and more valuable car without the fuss, however, have less fun fixing it about and juicing it up I suspect.
We would probably be doing V-8's.
Tony
stephen curtis
uk
stephen.curtis@tesco.net Posted 18 December 2006 at 12:30:12 UK time
ray i came to see you today but alas you where not in .give me a call on my mobile .as my new mobile phone same number would not transfer all my contacts cheers steve
Mark A. Saylor
Collegeville
PA
U.S.A.
mgcsaylor@comcast.net Posted 19 December 2006 at 13:51:21 UK time
FYI - that center brace can be seen on the "overpriced" MGC now for sale on eBay.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-VERY...1QQcmdZViewItem
Chris Cordingley
North Kent
United Kingdom
cordingley@btinternet.com Posted 10 January 2007 at 19:07:01 UK time
I have just been out with a magnet to check mine as it has a centre brace, it is deninately something other than steel as the magnet wasn't interested but did like the chrome strip !!
I was a little worried when it was first pointed out that it was "wrong" but then was told by someone that there were different types used.
Chris
Tony Giordano
USA
mgctony@aol.com Posted 11 January 2007 at 02:53:49 UK time
Chris,
It is not "wrong", however quite exceptional !
The brace is ally...lovely piece....does anyone have a bonnet w/o the tear drop?
Tony
Chris Cordingley
North Kent
United Kingdom
cordingley@btinternet.com Posted 11 January 2007 at 11:08:11 UK time
The different bonnets are not mentioned in "the" book by Clausager so does anyone know how or why these were used or are they post factory additions. Unfortunately I know very little of the past of my car except it is on it's third reg no., I have had it a couple of years and the PO was a friend who had it 6 or so years - before that it seems the body was restored / repainted.
Thanks
Chris
Fred Wright
Pennsylvania
USA
wright22@bellatlantic.net Posted 15 January 2007 at 01:50:00 UK time
Chris,
Thanks for info about checking bonnet with magnet. Not sure that I expected the magnet to stick on it but . . . . I was curious. Although I would agree with Tony that one could tell the difference by lifting the bonnet, I am not sure that I would want to do that any more then placing a magnet on someones unit with out their permission. Plus, with the liimited availabiltiy of C bonnets, the age of these cars and the damage/neglect that these cars have experienced over the years, some of these alloy bonnets weigh more than a new steel one with the amout of filler they have in them.
I have been meaning to check the factory parts books provided to my father's MG franchise in 1967/ early 1968 for the MGC and only just checked it this AM. There is only one bonnet listed with part number HZA1318, which I would guess is an alloy bonnet. It only shows an outline of the bonnet and assoicted molding/fixing hardware. No scetch of the underside. Althought the body book is not maked up with another part number, I am guessing that the steel bonnet ordered to fix a MGC that was in the shop in the late 60's, very early 70's, must have offered as a cheaper alternate when they ordered the parts required to fix the 1969 in the shop. Seems that there must be more to the story about cross brased MGC bonnet's than what is currently know as it would have taken at least one additional stamping jig and probably a couple alignment jigs to to the spot welding to the frame before the skin was welded to the frame. When heritage stamped new bonnets several years ago, there was not cross brace offered, metioned or discussed for the MGC when locating the jigs.
In closing, not sure that I would agree that the steel bonnet was provided due to accident damage during shipping/delievery. I cannot remember ever seeing an MGB, MGC or Midget delivered with front end damage requiring the replacemet or repair of a bonnet. Also, BMC had been assembling and delivering all MGB's since 1962 with alloy bonnets.
Mark Miller
Oregon
USA
Big6Mark@aol.com Posted 16 January 2007 at 05:56:07 UK time
The alloy bonnet was original, but as Clausager states in his book "possibly changed to steel towards the end of the MGC production run in 1969." The brace was probably deleted early on as well.
The BRG(dark) 1968 MGC GT that I first owned in 1978 had a steel bonnet, but I do believe it was a replacement (it was black on the underside.) The grill was incomplete and I think it had been in an accident. Most American bodymen generally don't know how to work aluminum and I doubt they ever have. (I need a good aluminum bodyman, can anyone recommend one in the Pacific Northwest?) It would have therefore been a good idea to supply the replacements in steel. The Healey 100 was originally built all in aluminum and that was changed very quickly for this reason.
The steel bonnet was heavier, but seemed weaker than the aluminum as I think they used a thinner guage of sheet in an attempt to keep the weight down.
My travelling buddy to INDY'96 liked the look of a C bonnet so much that he bought an NOS steel C bonnet for his 1974 MGB when we got back. He bought it from a former MGC V8 owner that still has an MGC GT. One of them might know what the original part number was on it.
C Ya,
Mark
Chris Cordingley
North Kent
United Kingdom
Posted 16 January 2007 at 08:55:53 UK time
I double checked yesterday and the frame, brace and bonnet are all alloy, I have put some pictures here:
https://digitalvault.bt.com/invite/login?...47&r=mg&lang=en
On mine it looks like the brace doesn't take the shape of the teardrop.
Hope this is of interest
Chris
rick ingram
Illinois
USA
mowog1@aol.com Posted 16 January 2007 at 13:59:09 UK time
Chris..interesting placement of the prop rod. Was that original on the centre-brace c-bonnet?
Fred Wright
Pennsylvania
USA
wright22@bellatlantic.net Posted 16 January 2007 at 16:23:28 UK time
Rick/Chris,
It also appears (from the pictures) that this cross brace may be riveted (not pop rivets) as opposed to spot welded to the rest of the frame on every B & C factory B & C bonnet that I can ever recall looking at. Also not sure that there is any way to do this before the skin was wrapped on the frame. Doesn't seem that it would be as strong as a spot welded unit.
The saga continues?!?!
BOB FISHER
Pennsylvania
USA
mgfish@comcast.net Posted 17 January 2007 at 04:47:16 UK time
OK my two cents, I worked for BMC/British Leyland/JRT
I believe that they change the bonnet to steel because of the cost to make them also when we got them from the UK they were packed 25 to a coffin (crate) and the
hood prop bracket damaged lots of them. We had way more MGB than MGC but the damage was the same. The new cars had little damage in transit and were fixed at our place near the port in Jessiup MD. Big Healeys entire center sections were
aluminum from to rear. Also the part numbers were different for aluminum and steel.
Bob
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