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Question on Hardened Axles

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So far as I know, the Winner's Circle DB hubs require a modification of the backing plate.

I believe you have to remove the little trough that directs oil seepage through the plate in order to gain enough clearance for the DB unit.

Hap, Do the DB units you make also require this?
I don't really like the idea of irreversible modifications, so I have been using the heavy axles and the standard "floppy" hubs.
I have not had any problems yet.
Should I expect the flanges to get loose like the guy at the Winner's Circle said MIGHT happen?
 
TRUE-ISMS.......

The stock Spridget housings are sometimes not straight which can lead to axle problems. Especially if someone really hammered a curb.

Later axles are supposedly of a different steel and supposedly stronger.

Spinning the tires in water for example.....and then onto dry pavement and having the car hook up will certainly twist if not brake an axle.

Driving sanely and routine maintenence such as gear oil changing you might never break a trans or an axle ...even with 85 hp at the rear wheels.

Double bearing hubs are only necessary on a road race car with wide(er) tires and GRIP. Street cars need neither aftermarket axles or dbl brng hubs.

Dave at Winners Circle gets tired of, each and every day for what...30 years...of people asking for free information and cheap parts. when all else fails ...read up!!

For street driving the rear drum brakes are adaquate. Good pads in the front...dry lining in the back and WELL MAINTAINED brake system with all the RIGHT parts and the car will stop WELL!!

End of rant.
 
This happened as I was backing out of a driveway.
(Yes I came to a complete stop)
Rearend014.jpg

BTW....I had just Auto-Xed within a couple of days.
 
JerryB said:
Dave at Winners Circle gets tired of, each and every day for what...30 years...of people asking for free information and cheap parts. when all else fails ...read up!!

For street driving the rear drum brakes are adaquate. Good pads in the front...dry lining in the back and WELL MAINTAINED brake system with all the RIGHT parts and the car will stop WELL!!

End of rant.
Click to expand...

Whoa...easy JerryB. I neither asked Dave for free information, nor cheap parts. And if you have been following my 59 Bugeye build progress notes, or my questions for the last 16 months on this forum, you will notice that I have yet to cut any corners, and if anything, I have spent TOO much money on the project.

The bottom line is this, with a newly rebuilt master, newly rebuilt front calipers, brand new stainless lines throughout, brand new rear pistons, brand new copper unions, brand new drums, brand new every remaining brake component you can think of, re-arcing of my rear brake pads to better line up with the new drums and upteenth hours of bleeding the brakes not only by me, but professionally using countless techniques by Heritage Garage in Costa Mesa, CA which has been servicing British vehicles for over 15 years, MY REAR BRAKES DO NOT WORK WELL. GOT IT?

Hence, the reason for asking around for the rear disc brake conversion inquiry, which led to the hardened axles question.

End of rant.

Mustafa Soylemez
 
msoylemez said:
Hence, the reason for asking around for the rear disc brake conversion inquiry, which led to the hardened axles question.
Click to expand...
Everyone told me to replace mine, but I was short on cash so I figured I'd just wait until one broke.

Well that was about a year later.
All told it wasn't that bad....
New gaskets/seals & a thorough cleaning of the banjo housing.
Followed by 2 changes of diff fluid.

The biggest PITA was extracting the broken bit of axle out of the LSD.
BTW...I was able to limp home because of the LSD.
If I had an open diff.....I'd have been stuck.

Rearend001.jpg
 
OK... since we are off the subject anyway /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

What (about your rear brakes) does not work well?

I've always assumed that mine have been fine. Mine lock up quickly after the front and the emergency brake works well. I guess what I'm asking is... how do I know if mine are working as well as they should?
 
Trevor Jessie said:
I've always assumed that mine have been fine. Mine lock up quickly after the front and the emergency brake works well. I guess what I'm asking is... how do I know if mine are working as well as they should?
Click to expand...
Well that sounds pretty good..

Every once in a while I'll put my finger on all 4 drums after a few blocks of driving and get a general idea of how much of a work out they are getting...
Plus I often get the weird feeling one is hanging up. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I've used the old torque wrench trick to check em also..
(Most ppl don't put much stock in that one)
 
Mine don't work well because it feels like there is air in the system--although there isn't.

Again, the brakes were bled a million times, and each connection point was checked a dozen times over. With everything connected, it takes 2 pumps to fully engage brakes on all four wheels--not 1 pump, and not 3 pumps.

We have narrowed it down to the rear brakes, bc when we capped off the rear line, the front brakes engage perfectly--one strong pedal pump. Not so when you re-introduce the rear brakes into the system. OK, so its a leak you say. Not so fast. Again, everything has been checked a dozen times and everything is brand new. There is no visible oil seeping out of any joint.

After having researched the subject even more, I have decided to try inserting a reserve pressure valve to see if this makes a difference. I will keep you posted.

For the life of me, and a very legit, very professional garage specializing in British cars (Mini's mostly), I don't have a clear understanding of what the heck's going on back there.

If yours is 1) not doing any of the above and 2) stopping the vehicle adequately, then I probably wouldn't worry about it. But whatever you do, don't ask Dave at Winner's Circle any questions, bc apparently he gets annoyed when people ask him questions.

Mustafa
 
Mustafa,

You might want to take it over a few blocks to Chris' British Car Service (on Harbor, behind the Hub Auto Supply)

2120 A Harbor Blvd
Costa Mesa, California 92627
USA
Tel: (949) 642-4122
Contact: Chris Gough

Chris has been there since 1969 and is British trained. Knows his stuff. Guarantees his work. Sometimes another set of eyeballs makes a difference.

Cheers,
John
 
Just don't fix em too good....

Heavy rear bias in the rain is fantastically terrifying.
jaw-dropping.gif
 
Hmmm,
wait. What is your brake system setup. Which MC, and type of rear brakes (early or late or later)?
 
3/4" bore master and early rear cylinders (via Moss).

And John, thanks for the tip--I will definitely take it to Chris for another look.

Mustafa
 
As this discussion was morphed into the subject of rear brakes, I can tell you that my experience with rear brakes is the following:

The stock brakes are adequate but the rear oil seals on the (outer) hubs are marginal at best. In many cases these seals will leak diff oil onto the rear brakes. Then it won't matter *what* type of lining you use.

This is a fairly common problem with racing Spridgets (due to sloshing oil with heavy side loads). It's not such a big deal with street Spridgets. Most of you who have worked on these cars have seen the little "trench" in the brake-backing place that is designed to allow leaking oil to drain away (even BMC recognized that this was a problem).

I've tried a lot of things to prevent these seals from leaking (and I know Chris_S is on a mission to fix his right now).
But as far as I have seen, even the best of ideas by the smartest people just seems to "manage" this leak (down to "acceptable" levels).
Apparently, neither God nor Merlin can quarantee that Spridget rear axle seals won't weep a least a little oil.
Eventually, I'm switching to a non-Spridget rear to resolve this.

Mustafa: Be sure they bleed the brakes at the master-cylinder end as well as the wheel cylinder end. There's no bleeder at that end....you just have to loosen the line going into the master cylinder while the pedal is held down (a messy job). Sometimes air gets trapped in the front part of the line and is tough to bleed out. Happens to mine.
 
"""""""""WhatsThatNoise
This happened as I was backing out of a driveway.
(Yes I came to a complete stop) """""""

That pix shows a change in diameter about one inch down the axle from the splines that would be a good strating point for a stress riser.....that mistake might lead one to believe that other thing might be suspect...heat treating, spline machining and so forth.



"""""""msoylemez msoylemez

Whoa...easy JerryB. I neither asked Dave for free information, nor cheap parts """"""""

Not you, I was referring to others that call......

""""""""CA which has been servicing British vehicles for over 15 years, MY REAR BRAKES DO NOT WORK WELL. GOT IT? """"

For a 1700# car the front discs and 7" drums should WORK WELL. What pads are you using for the front...and what lining the rear ?....using the right pads and shoes you should have excellent brakes.

""""""""For the life of me, and a very legit, very professional garage specializing in British cars (Mini's mostly), I don't have a clear understanding of what the heck's going on back there.""""""

Specializing and clear understanding are the operative words here and your 'mechanic' should understand. have you considered a second opinion as was suggested above?

You have a mechanical problem and NOT a lack of braking ability.

JB
 
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