Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
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Thanks,
This is good to know when I get the courage to start going beyond the cosmetics...
This is good to know when I get the courage to start going beyond the cosmetics...
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Quality engine parts?
- Thread starter PeterK
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TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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While I agree that it's wrong to assume that parts from a particular country are necessarily bad (or good); there have certainly been a lot of sub-standard parts on the market in the last 10 years or so.PeterK said:
And if what Steve Hedke from British Pacific told our club is true, we can expect the situation to get worse before it gets better. He said that many of the traditional manufacturers are no longer making our parts, and the slack is being taken up by new manufacturers. Use the wrong print, or not know something not mentioned on the print (like required hardness for lifters being a side effect of obsolete manufacturing techniques), or make an incorrect substitution for obsolete materials ... and Presto, you've got thousands or millions of bad parts which probably won't be discovered until they've gone into the supply chain.
It would be nice to believe that our suppliers would refuse to carry such parts, once they are known to be substandard, but many times that has been shown to not be the case. The financial reality is that once they have bought large quantities of bad parts, with no effective recourse with the manufacturer ("We made them to the print, pay up."), it may make more financial sense to sell the parts and deal with returns, bad press, etc.
We're not making our suppliers rich, and they simply cannot afford to 'eat' large quantities of parts, especially those that may or may not actually be defective.
My $.002, YMMV
Randall
tomshobby
Yoda
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Some of you know that I have another hobby that is close in investment and probably larger than this one.
Over the past several years the manufacturers have gone to making parts and complete assembled units in Asia.
The first few years many thought it was great to be able to purchase parts and equipment at much lower prices. Over time this turned out to be a huge mistake because of the high percentage of failures and the lack of support for the junk that was purchased. Replacing old or broken junk with new shinny junk is not fixing the problem.
The result is that we, the hobby's customers, are not purchasing nearly as much and many have been loosing interest and even leaving the hobby. Recently one of the oldest and largest manufacturers went under. They were a German company making some of the highest quality and much sought after equipment in the hobby. Their vision of fabulous profits from cheap manufacturing in Asia ended up destroying everything they stood for.
When I spend my money I expect the part to perform, be dependable, and look like the original. Anything else is junk and, in my opinion costs more in so many ways than the purchase price and money "saved" by cheap manufacturing and material.
I have been seeing many unhappy people on this forum and other places. Hopefully the suppliers reading these forum threads will pay attention to what is being said and run their business not only for the "now" but also for the future.
Over the past several years the manufacturers have gone to making parts and complete assembled units in Asia.
The first few years many thought it was great to be able to purchase parts and equipment at much lower prices. Over time this turned out to be a huge mistake because of the high percentage of failures and the lack of support for the junk that was purchased. Replacing old or broken junk with new shinny junk is not fixing the problem.
The result is that we, the hobby's customers, are not purchasing nearly as much and many have been loosing interest and even leaving the hobby. Recently one of the oldest and largest manufacturers went under. They were a German company making some of the highest quality and much sought after equipment in the hobby. Their vision of fabulous profits from cheap manufacturing in Asia ended up destroying everything they stood for.
When I spend my money I expect the part to perform, be dependable, and look like the original. Anything else is junk and, in my opinion costs more in so many ways than the purchase price and money "saved" by cheap manufacturing and material.
I have been seeing many unhappy people on this forum and other places. Hopefully the suppliers reading these forum threads will pay attention to what is being said and run their business not only for the "now" but also for the future.
YankeeTR
Luke Skywalker
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One thing to consider when sourcing non-OEM parts... (This is a summary of what a used machinery dealer in michigan told me a few years back.)
"Back in the 70's and 80's American industries got a bad rap for producing poor quality parts using obsolete and worn out machine tools. Quality went downhill. Many of those business' failed. Their equipment was sold off. Where did a lot of it wind up? In China, India, Mexico, etc".
"Now we are buying parts from the fareast and Mexico which are being made on the same worn out machines these old manufacturers used. Except the machine tools are now 30 years older".
This dealer ships container loads of foundry equipment, machine tools, spare parts and equipment to the fareast every month. They are 'repairing' their worn-out machines with worn out machine parts. He's making a killing.
The pictures we all see of the spotless, modern Chinese factories with pristine workers all dressed in nice clean uniforms is only part of the story. MANY products are made on old, obsolete machines in backyard foundries and machine shops all over the country. This is true of Pakistan, India, Mexico and many third world countries.
Quality suffers...and we pay the price.
I'm not against fair trading practices...something we really don't have. But I refuse to hand out my hard earned dollars for products that are not up to snuff. That's why I'd sooner rebuild my old parts than buy new. At least I know what I have.
"Back in the 70's and 80's American industries got a bad rap for producing poor quality parts using obsolete and worn out machine tools. Quality went downhill. Many of those business' failed. Their equipment was sold off. Where did a lot of it wind up? In China, India, Mexico, etc".
"Now we are buying parts from the fareast and Mexico which are being made on the same worn out machines these old manufacturers used. Except the machine tools are now 30 years older".
This dealer ships container loads of foundry equipment, machine tools, spare parts and equipment to the fareast every month. They are 'repairing' their worn-out machines with worn out machine parts. He's making a killing.
The pictures we all see of the spotless, modern Chinese factories with pristine workers all dressed in nice clean uniforms is only part of the story. MANY products are made on old, obsolete machines in backyard foundries and machine shops all over the country. This is true of Pakistan, India, Mexico and many third world countries.
Quality suffers...and we pay the price.
I'm not against fair trading practices...something we really don't have. But I refuse to hand out my hard earned dollars for products that are not up to snuff. That's why I'd sooner rebuild my old parts than buy new. At least I know what I have.
OP
PeterK
Yoda
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]That's why I'd sooner rebuild my old parts than buy new. At least I know what I have.[/QUOTE]
You hit the nail squarely on the head. No only does rebuilding original parts result in better parts than some of the new, thinner, non-quality stuff. And EVERY vendor seomtimes sells junk, no one is without fault. But rebuilding your own stuff teaches you about how this stuff works and how we can make improvements to keep out Triumphs alive for the long run.
When I talked to Ken Gillander, he stated that if we don't work and work hard to keep them alive, they'll be gone. Without Triumphs to fix and improve, NO ONE will make parts when we need them, quality or not.
Some ARE in it just for the buck, and if TRs become non-profitable, they'll just sell something else. But there are a few vendors out there that are truely into the marque, and their profits sustain them so they can keep on with their own TRs.
You hit the nail squarely on the head. No only does rebuilding original parts result in better parts than some of the new, thinner, non-quality stuff. And EVERY vendor seomtimes sells junk, no one is without fault. But rebuilding your own stuff teaches you about how this stuff works and how we can make improvements to keep out Triumphs alive for the long run.
When I talked to Ken Gillander, he stated that if we don't work and work hard to keep them alive, they'll be gone. Without Triumphs to fix and improve, NO ONE will make parts when we need them, quality or not.
Some ARE in it just for the buck, and if TRs become non-profitable, they'll just sell something else. But there are a few vendors out there that are truely into the marque, and their profits sustain them so they can keep on with their own TRs.
TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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YankeeTR said:
Ironically enough, I paid my way through college back in the 70's with just such a job, right here in the US. "Big Blue" had worn out the machines and obsoleted the parts they made; but users of those parts were still willing to pay for them, so the company I worked for picked up the slack. I got the job because I'm good at coaxing old machinery to run for another day. Some of those machines were older than I was!
We even made parts for mechanical telephone switches ! (Although that wasn't the line I worked on.)
Randall
Monkeywrench
Jedi Trainee
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]That's why I'd sooner rebuild my old parts than buy new. At least I know what I have.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Ken G will sell you good parts, but a lot of the other parts on the market today are junk. Use as much old stock as you can and where you can get away with it, use good AMERICAN racing manufacters (Crower, Carillo, JE, etc.) It's WELL worth the money
Exactly. Ken G will sell you good parts, but a lot of the other parts on the market today are junk. Use as much old stock as you can and where you can get away with it, use good AMERICAN racing manufacters (Crower, Carillo, JE, etc.) It's WELL worth the money
StagByTriumph
Jedi Warrior
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YankeeTR said:
Quality suffers? You are correct! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif
Most times there is no quality control at all. If it is made in China, Mexico, Borneo, India, there is no standard applied to even the basics like composition of the materials such as the metals, rubbers, operating ranges, tolerances, suitability to the application, or testing to any thing even resembling a relevant standard.
All that is done in the cheap labor manufacturing market is make it "look" cosmetically like the OE part and box even if it is swiss cheese painted black.
This is always a sore subject with me, certainly when the distributor and supplier are not performing their own checks on what they are ordering and selling. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif
It is our responsibility, the customer, to make sure we can assess the suitability of the part these days because the manufacturers of classic parts will not, nor will the distributor.
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thirsty.gif
Only by customers providing feedback to the distributors about crap parts - that means not tossing it on the shelf, in the trash, or reselling it on Ebay - will the distributors start demanding the some sort of quality standard.
This is what the British Motor Trade Association https://www.britcar.org/ is all about in North America. Support these shops and suppliers who are members, and provide feedback to them on the quality parts you want.
So as I have said before "Caveat Emptor - ya'll" /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif