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Pulling the engine, clutch troubles?

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Slick Willy

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Well I had the slave cylinder go down on me. It was a easy enough fix, while at it I went ahead and replaced the master cylinder and line. Figured I would be better off in the long run. After bleeding the system off to my surprise I still had no clutch. I double checked my work and have found my clutch release lever has a lot of play. Can my throwout bearing and clutch be stuck and do I need to pull the engine to fix this. As i see no way of doing it unless I pull it. Any help and input would be great thanks.:encouragement:
 
Slick Willy said:
Well I had the slave cylinder go down on me. It was a easy enough fix, while at it I went ahead and replaced the master cylinder and line. Figured I would be better off in the long run. After bleeding the system off to my surprise I still had no clutch. I double checked my work and have found my clutch release lever has a lot of play. Can my throwout bearing and clutch be stuck and do I need to pull the engine to fix this. As i see no way of doing it unless I pull it. Any help and input would be great thanks.:encouragement:
Click to expand...

It would be a great help to know what year/model car and drivetrain you have.
 
Slick Willy said:
Well I had the slave cylinder go down on me. It was a easy enough fix, while at it I went ahead and replaced the master cylinder and line. Figured I would be better off in the long run. After bleeding the system off to my surprise I still had no clutch. I double checked my work and have found my clutch release lever has a lot of play. Can my throwout bearing and clutch be stuck and do I need to pull the engine to fix this. As i see no way of doing it unless I pull it. Any help and input would be great thanks.:encouragement:
Click to expand...

Generally if they stick it's due to sitting a long time, and pedal will work normally...just one side of the friction disc stuck to the nearside metallic bit.
Yes, there are parts that can fail, but generally not to do that.
This a self-adjuster or spring around the slave?
You need to ensure the slave is actually working. Just because you THINK it's bled doesn't mean there isn't this big huge block of air in the line.
If self adjusting, fluid holds the slave piston out to keep the slack out of the pushrod.
If manual adjust, the spring holds the arm towards the slave, and you need to adjust the rod.
I've run into different manufacturer's slaves with different piston depths. To the point on some cars had to make a new pushrod.
Make sure the pushrod moves out the necessary amount when you depress the pedal.
 
Its a 68' 1275, Rib case trans. I used 3 people to bleed he system. 1 pumping clutch, 1 on the bleeder and 1 watching the slave cylinder. Release lever feels as if it may be loose from the throw out bearing. Or the clutch is stuck. I have the engine just about ready to pull, I will more than likely just go a head an replace the rest of the system. Looking at the moss catalog I wonder if one of the keepers for the throw out have failed. This is an old car that has seen some years of road use, so maybe its just time for a tear down.
 
This is memory...and old memory...but if I recall, the keepers retaining the T/O bearing into the fork.
Yeah, if they both failed, the clutch was WAY out of adjustment, the external spring came off, at high revs, maybe the T/O ears could come undocked and rotate....but not likely.
Most likely the arm has cracked, sheared a pin, or whatever that model has.
Clutches do not normally fail open, as in, fingers on the pressure plate remaining depressed, with ensuing excessive play at the fork and pushrod.
Massive failure in the trust bearings on the crankshaft, yes. I think I would look for how much end float you have at the front pulley first.
Or at least before you slap it together again.

I've been into so many marques over the years....if I saw it, I'd remember, but pulling up a visual now is rough.
 
Soundalike something was going wrong to be and the person with the Size 13 left foot pushed things over the edge with some enthusiastic pumping. Betting on bent clutch fork or TO bearing mechanical failure.
 
Im thinking failure in the TO or broke/ cracked/bent arm. I will take pics and keep you all posted. Thanks for all the help and advice, lord knows my description is kinda out there. But you guys always try and help and give guidance and that is a god sent. Thanks from the bottom of my heart and tool box.
 
Thanks Gerard, I can see one thing I messed up on all ready. I did it like a brake system and pumped the clutch, while the pedal was depressed opened the bleeder. Is this wrong? Or should I open the bleeder and depress the pedal, then tighten the bleeder while pedal is depressed? Still the arm is way to loose and the motor is ready to pull. I will start that on my next day off. Thanks.
 
Slick Willy said:
Thanks Gerard, I can see one thing I messed up on all ready. I did it like a brake system and pumped the clutch, while the pedal was depressed opened the bleeder. Is this wrong? Or should I open the bleeder and depress the pedal, then tighten the bleeder while pedal is depressed? Still the arm is way to loose and the motor is ready to pull. I will start that on my next day off. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Brakes, too, BTW.
Two person job. Pump it a couple of times, hold down, open bleeder. When the fluid stops, close the bleeder, alert the person in the cab to let off...pause (sometimes important for recharging from reservoir), and hold down again.
 
Thanks for all the help and info I will keep you posted. Since the engine will be out now is the time for a good cleaning and repaint. Where and which paint would be best any input would be fantastic. After looking at some members cars here, I must stress that this little 68' is a driver and no where near the quality I have seen. Don't get me wrong she is solid and a blast to drive, runs great and gets lots of attention. I'm just not looking at a restore, just a safe and enjoyable car. It has spent the last two years doing about 100 miles a day, 5 days a week. Here in the mountains thats asking a lot out of a little 4 cylinder with a 4 speed.
 
Nice to here from someone who really use's these cars like they were intended when they were new. I'm betting on a failed TO bearing myself. Moss engine colors are not cheap but are correct and good quality.

Kurt
 
Thanks nomad, that was the deal when we got the car drive it and take care off it. The motor is out and it is a failed TO bearing, a complete failure. The pressure plate looks good the clutch well its worn down. This car was purchased new in 68' buy my uncle who had just seen his 2nd tour in Nam. He kept the car alway through his military career. Then took a job with the FAA. The car made the trip to Florida where it would spend the next 20 years of its life. He retired once more only to find he had cancer. We talked and the car made the trip from Florida to Kentucky. It will never be a perfect example but it is a reminder to me and my wife of just how precious life is. She only gets a short break during the winter and its back on duty, just like Mike would have wanted. 46 years and still on the road. The plan is to pass it on to our son who loves driving it. The plan is to strip it down and give it a fresh paint job this winter, the interior will stay as its still good.
 
It's been discussed on here before but when you refit your TO bearing there are a couple of things to pay attention to. If there is much wear in your pivot it should be corrected. Also its not uncommon for the arm to get bent. The TO bearing should be as close to concentric on the clutch pressure plate as possible.
Finally, the TO bearing can be a problem spot. When you have to stop at a light or for any reason you should avoid holding the clutch in. Pop the trans to neutral instead.

Wish you many happy miles,
Kurt.
 
I suspect the TO bearing isn't all your problem.
As said several times, bent arm, bushings.
The TO bearing, if you didn't hear it grinding away, well....you SHOULD have been able to adjust the play out and it would have worked.
You need to know how to do that to get you home someday on all 4 and not the back of a wrecker.
68 wasn't still using the carbon bearing face, was it? I know I used to get OLD cars in the shop and we'd upgrade to newer plate and an actual bearing. Not exactly sure any more what we ordered, but it worked.
Even an actual bearing, get off the clutch, after you find neutral.
Carbons used to really burn out fast when folks would wait in traffic with the pedal down.

Checked the crank end float yet?
 
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