Pertronix Static Timing?

[Tabcon]

The car I bought had a Pertronix electronic ignition module in it, but with a stock coil and really crappy wires. The old distributor had seen better days, but it wasn't terrible.

The car ran great, but it had a little low end bogging when you let the clutch out in first gear. I installed a new Pertronix distributor and coil, as well as new wires and plugs. It runs much better now, but I need to set the timing. I remember how to do that on a regular Lucas distributor, but on the Pertronix, there is no low tension wire to disconnect in order to set the static timing.

Does anyone have any idea how to do this? Also, is it necessary to use a timing light after setting the static timing? I seem to recall that all you really needed to do on these cars was to only set the static and not the dynamic timing.

Thanks...again

Tab

 

[70herald]

Setting the timing by "static" settings is great if you don't have a timing light, have just taken everything apart etc.. Since you already have it running just snap on the timing light make sure it is about right and take it for a drive. You can try advancing the ignition a bit until it starts to ping and then back off.
Really nothing to sophisticated about these engines.

 

[vettedog72]

I don't think you get any centrifugal advance at 900 or less RPM's on the TR6. So, just block off the vacuum advance and check the status and record it so you will have a reference. Then advance and or retard until it runs the best. I would record that setting as described earlier.

 

[dklawson]

You can static time a Pertronix Ingitor module, you cannot static time the "newer" Ignitor-II module.

Assuming you have a traditional Ignitor you must first be made aware of its key weakness. You must never leave the ignition on with the engine NOT running for more than about 3 minutes. Doing so will allow the Ignitor to overheat causing its premature death. That said, static time as follows.

It sounds like you are already familiar with static timing so I'll skip the overview. Leave the Ignitor's power wires connected as normal. Assuming you have a negative ground car, connect a test lamp between coil (-) and a good earthing point. Switch on the ignition and turn the distributor as you normally would for static timing. When the test lamp turns "on", the Ignitor has "opened" the circuit (equivalent to the points just opening). Switch off the ignition and tighten the dizzy clamp. Again, this is just like static timing with points with the most important difference being that you must not leave the ignition on for a prolonged period of time.

 

[Tabcon]

Thanks.

I'll give it a try today. I have a postive ground, so I'll just take what you say backwards. I don't think it's an Ignitor 2, but I'll check.
I tried the Pertronix website to check if they had any info several times, but it's down for some reason.

I've never had very much success on old British cars with a timing light. I remember tuning my old '59 Bugeye with a home made static light and it worked great. I don't know why, but the static timing and just driving it until it feels right seems the best way to go.

Back to Pertronix. I'm not too impressed with the quality of this product. I installed their less expensive distributor, not the billet one. Sure it seems to be working, but the distributor cap seems very loose. I bent down the clamps on it and it tightened up a bit, but still no where as snug as a standard Lucas. Also, I was tightnening the negative side of the coil with a small 8mm wrench and barely touched the coil tower causing it to crack the top of the coil.

Tab

 

[poolboy]

Repeating dklawson's warning in his last sentance.
I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that approx. 10 seconds is enough to ruin a Pertronix pick-up.

 

[dklawson]

It's short, but it's not 10 seconds. The exact number was provided to a friend of mine by a tech service guy at Pertronix. Since I can't remember the exact figure I tell people to limit the time to 3 minutes. I remember it was a bit longer than that... I just don't remember how much more.

While static timing it's easy to interrupt power to the module. Simply unplug either the red or black Pertronix wires as soon as you're done. Reconnect them after you've turned off the ignition key.

 

[Tabcon]

I'm taking the Pertronix off. While I was adjusting it, the dist cap cracked in half. Probably because it didn't fit right in the first place.

Have any of you guys ever used Mallory or Luminition products?
The Mallory looks a whole bunch more substantial than the Pertronix, but it's also very un-factory like looking. A little hot roddish.

Tab

 

[TR6BILL]

Try going back to points and condenser. I have been through 6 (countem, six..) electronic ignition system (3 brands) and I have found points to be better for my car. Having a well-rebuilt dizzy is a plus, too. Advanced did wonders with mine. Too many downsides to electronic, as I see it.

 

[JFS]

I have had a Mallory dual point on my TR3A since the 1980s and have had no problems with it whatsoever. It is an extremely well made unit. My engine is modified and I time it at 32 degrees @ 4000 rpm. It has no vacuum advance; however, you could time it statically just like a stock dizzy. I also have an electronic Mallory Unalite on my TR8. I have been running this dizzy for the last three years and am very pleased with it as well.

 

[bigjones]

Repeating dklawson's warning in his last sentance.
I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that approx. 10 seconds is enough to ruin a Pertronix pick-up.

Funnily enough...
Saturday I got back from a 60 round mile trip in the TR3, turned the engine off and then turned the ignition back on. I was going to calibrate the gas gauge reading with a wooden dowel in the gas tank. Evidently, when I got out the car, I must have found something more interesting to do because I totally forgot about it.
24 hours later I wander into the garage to see the key in the "on" position. The battery was totally flat. I re-charged the battery and today I took a drive to the grocery store, no problem. So in this instance the Pertronix was not fried, even after a full day of being "on".
BTW, I also have a Pertronix in a 1500 Midget (also had one in my now rusting 1275 Midget) - no problems at all.
When switching from points, I just used a timing light to re-set the timing to the factory spec.

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58324

 

[TR3driver]

It's certainly not "<span style="text-decoration: underline">will </span>damage", only "can damage". For example if the magnets line up so the virtual points are open, leaving the key on won't hurt it at all. But even Pertronix acknowledges that it is a problem (although AFAIK they never gave a time interval). And no doubt a proper installation (with thermal compound under the module) will help prevent damage.

Also worth noting perhaps that high temperatures always shorten the life of electronics. Letting it overheat may not kill it immediately, but that doesn't mean that part of it's lifetime hasn't been lost.

Should be easy enough to come up with a circuit to reduce the current through the module when the engine is not turning, but I'm too lazy to do it now. One approach might be a NE555-style timer, configured as a missing pulse detector. If it doesn't see a pulse from the Pertronix for a few seconds, it operates a relay that inserts a second ballast resistor into the circuit.

Or it might be possible to do the same thing with the fuel pump relay from an old K-Jetronic injection system.

 

[TRMark]

I'm taking the Pertronix off. While I was adjusting it, the dist cap cracked in half. Probably because it didn't fit right in the first place.

Have any of you guys ever used Mallory or Luminition products?
The Mallory looks a whole bunch more substantial than the Pertronix, but it's also very un-factory like looking. A little hot roddish.

Tab

I have been using a Mallory dual point for years. I installed it because it is kind of a "period" improvement(?) and I had Webers on my TR4. The Webers were removed the Mallory stayed. Yes it does look a little roddish.

 

[Tabcon]

I recently found out, thanks to Moss's catalog, that the distributor cap used is the same as the one used for MGB's from 1975 through 1980. When I contacted the people I bought the distributor from, the guy told me, "no problem man, it takes the same as a 1970 Camaro." I politely said thank you and kept looking...lol.

The cap provided by Pertronix is a cheapo piece of junk. I bought a new cap made by Lucas (at Napa Auto Parts of all places) that is very well made that works perfectly.

I used a timing light, and did the static thing, but I ended up just using my ears and my nose to dial in the final timing. It runs much, much better now and doesn't run on when I switch off the ignition anymore. The plugs are burning perfectly.

Thanks for all the great input.

Tab

 

[aeronca65t]

Repeating dklawson's warning in his last sentance.
I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that approx. 10 seconds is enough to ruin a Pertronix pick-up.

This is one of the reasons I run the Pertronix unit thought the ballast resistor <span style="text-decoration: underline">all the time</span> (even during cranking....I do not have a ballast "shunt").

Starts fine even with the reduced current.

I believe this prevents electrical shocks and pulses that can damage the unit.
I've had this setup in my car since '03.

I'm running a $15 coil intended for an old Chevy V8 and solid core plug wires.
You could weld with the spark. :laugh:

 

[dklawson]

We have Pertronix on our Formula-Vee (1200cc air cooled VW). We have a power warning light on the dash to remind us the ignition is on and a toggle switch to kill power to the Pertronix. We've had very reliable performance from that module using solid core wires and a Bosch Blue coil.