Overdrive Blues

[lpool15]

Hi all

After two very time consuming (2 months) tries to get a rebuilt Taype A OD installed and both failing from the same reputable rebuilder, My very good BC mechanic, advises that the best option is to get a 5 speed trans. I really want a 5th gear. I had hoped to have the OD for obvious reasons. No one can seem to figure out why they both won't work. Rebuilder claims it was good to go when sent. After 2 months of waiting for my TR4, Should I give up on the OD, and go with a 5 speed conversion. Time is wasting. Please advise.

Lpool15

 

[Guest]

Liver, I went through the very same thing that you are experiencing when I sent my whole tranny off to Quantum to have a J-type overdrive installed. When I got it back, I installed the beast and it worked once. I went through holy heck trying to make it work, John Esposito was at a loss. All I could do was sent the whole thing back to him whereupon he took that unit off and installed another. Back in it went, never a problem since. The kicker is, it worked on his bench but not in my car. The whole experience was a nightmare, not John's fault, just a gremlin. Very glad I have overdrive, so much easier than a 5-speed.

 

[lpool15]

Thanks bill,
Sorry to hear that you had what seems to be the exact same problem X 2. After all this time and sitting out my 2 week vacation with no car I am not certain I am thinking rationally. What do you think about the 5 speed option? The OD would well be worth it, but time is wasting uo here in N.E.

Regards

 

[TR3driver]

Let's see; you're wanting to know if you should replace a 7-speed semi-automatic with a 5-speed manual. Because your "good" mechanic can't seem to figure out what is wrong. Time for a new mechanic ?

Have you tried troubleshooting the problem ? What are the symptoms, exactly ?

Everyone I know with a 5-speed loves it; but they are all comparing to a 4-speed. Personally, I would much rather have a working A-type for a sports car; those instant shifts come in real handy when you're working a mountain road.

One alternative (that I used myself) is to find a used 4-speed and install that while John Esposito figures out your OD problem. That way, he can take his time and you can drive the car in the meantime. 4-speeds are cheap and readily available; you should be able to pick one up that works but is a bit tired for $100-200.

 

[lpool15]

Yes,
That would make sense. However my BCM has been good to me for years. We did the swap twice, but driving distance is a problem. I think it is time echange OD repair vendors my self. Latest symptoms seem to be not quite engaing even with 420-475 lbs pressure but will disengaue OK. Tried shimming a spring that is suposed to engage something to no avail, I confess that th OD is a mysterious beast to me. I am weakening toward a 5 speed though I would be happier with an OD.

 

[TR3driver]

Latest symptoms seem to be not quite engaing even with 420-475 lbs pressure but will disengaue OK.

Have you checked how far the valve ball moves ? The factory method for adjusting the solenoid linkage assumes that the lever & rod under the ball never wear, but they do eventually wear. The solution is to ignore the "setting lever" on the side, and instead measure how far the ball rises when the solenoid engages. The lift should be at least .016". (BTW, while measuring lift, you should lift the plunger by hand before energizing the solenoid. Otherwise, it tends to launch the ball.)

Lots of other things it could be, of course, but this is one of the most common mistakes (since it contradicts what all the books say).

 

[lpool15]

Thanks, I will check it out. I will say though that all the parts were supposed to be new.

 

[Geo Hahn]

I second (or whatever) the notion of holding out for the A-Type. I got one from John at Quantum and can't imagine how I drove w/o it.

I'm sure it's discouraging... I had to wrassle that beast into the TR4 all alone and would have surely been discouraged to have to do it again, and very discouraged if there had been a second do-over.

 

[YankeeTR]

I know there are several folks here that are fans of the 5-speed conversion but a properly operating O/D unit is a joy to drive. I have a J-type in stock that I will use in my TR2 in the future.

If you need a TR3 3-synchro box to get your car going, I will either 'loan' you one or sell you a decent, operable box for $125.00 plus freight. Let me know.

 

[TR3driver]

I have a J-type in stock that I will use in my TR2 in the future.

Have you driven a J-type ? IMO the A-type is much more suited to a "sports car". Perhaps I'm overly picky, but I much prefer the instant response of the A, as opposed to the "I'll get back to you" response of the J (while it builds pressure).

Plus of course you'll have to notch the frame & fab a cross-member to get it to fit in your TR2 ... but I assume you know all about that.

 

[Guest]

as opposed to the "I'll get back to you" response of the J (while it builds pressure).

I dunno, my J-type reacts pretty darn quick. Maybe it's my age and I don't expect things to happen fast.

 

[TR3driver]

I dunno, my J-type reacts pretty darn quick.

Well, for awhile I was driving one of each, so the difference was really noticeable to me. The A-type almost seems to read my mind; I'll swear it shifts before the switch has finished going 'click'; while I can flip the switch on the J-type and let the clutch out before it gets around to actually shifting into OD. I thought at first there might be something wrong with it (even though it was freshly rebuilt by Herman van den Akker); but the J-type in the second Stag shifts even slower (even after I fixed the bad connection that was sometimes keeping it from shifting at all).

It's a basic design feature : the A keeps a reservoir of oil under operating pressure (~400 psi depending on application) all the time, which the solenoid dumps directly into the operating pistons. By contrast, the J-type only carries 20 psi when it's not engaged; so the pump has to build enough pressure to make it shift even after the solenoid closes the bleed valve and the shuttle moves the main valve. It's not much of a pump (less than 0.1 cubic inches per driveshaft revolution) so it takes some time to push the pistons along.

The A-type also works in 2nd gear, and bridges perfectly the rather large gap between 2nd direct and 3rd direct. So when you're trying to be the first to the next stoplight, instead of having to wind beyond redline to avoid falling off the power curve after a shift (that always costs a few feet); instead you flip the switch at about 4700, right foot still on the floor, the nose pops up again, and suddenly you're another half length ahead. I've actually had someone accuse me of running nitrous !

BTW, the A-type comes in two flavors. They had to slow down and soften the shift when they went to IRS; by making the accumulator smaller.

 

[TRTEL]

It is great fun using the OD that way, but I recommend using it sparingly that fashion. Every one of those type of shifts really shears the surface of the brake ring and annulus, which is the majority of that metal flake sludge that you see in the bottom of the big brass drain plug. I've gotten to the point where I use the clutch to go into OD just to avoid unnecessary slip. Saving the guts for the rare autocross.

 

[Deleted member 451]

My A type slams into OD so hard that I'm afraid to use it without pushing in the clutch. It jolts the whole car when it engages. Next time I have the cover off I'm going to try to back off the adjustment about 1/16" and see if I can smooth it out.

 

[lpool15]

After three tries and 3 months I have decided to, give up for now. My pockets are not bottomless. I just want to enjoy whats left of summer and maybe try again later. Thank you all for your help.

PS does any one know of who can supply OD's for a TR4 in the US?

 

[YankeeTR]

I have a J-type in stock that I will use in my TR2 in the future.

Have you driven a J-type ? IMO the A-type is much more suited to a "sports car". Perhaps I'm overly picky, but I much prefer the instant response of the A, as opposed to the "I'll get back to you" response of the J (while it builds pressure).

Plus of course you'll have to notch the frame & fab a cross-member to get it to fit in your TR2 ... but I assume you know all about that.

I know it's going to take a little fab work. This is an ex-Volvo unit so I'm having a new driveshaft made to marry the TR shaft to the Volvo flange.

The crossmember will be removeable and I will have to drill/tap the J-type to match the TR trans mount.

My car is an original OD car and I would love an A-type but I only have about $20.00 invested in this J-type and that was just too good of a deal to pass up. I should be able to get the whole deal installed for less that $150.00.

 

[TR3driver]

My A type slams into OD so hard that I'm afraid to use it without pushing in the clutch.

IMO the OD engagement is actually tuned for full throttle, and it's quite a bit smoother that way. But for anything less, I do use the clutch (and recommend doing so).

 

[TR3driver]

The crossmember will be removeable and I will have to drill/tap the J-type to match the TR trans mount.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's that simple. The J-type sits farther back (assuming you are using the Triumph adapter and mainshaft), so the housing literally goes through where the stock TR2 mount would be.

My car is an original OD car and I would love an A-type but I only have about $20.00 invested in this J-type and that was just too good of a deal to pass up. I should be able to get the whole deal installed for less that $150.00.

Wow ! Where did you find even just the mainshaft and adapter for that kind of price ??? The Volvo parts don't fit ...

 

[Brosky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Have you driven a J-type ? IMO the A-type is much more suited to a "sports car". Perhaps I'm overly picky, but I much prefer the instant response of the A, as opposed to the "I'll get back to you" response of the J (while it builds pressure). [/QUOTE]

I've got to disagree on that statement. My J overdrive engage/disengage is instantaneous. The only time that I've ever found it to be slow is if the filter needs cleaning and even then, it is a matter of my being picky and knowing just how fast it should be. I've had TR3 owners with A types drive it say that it shifts as fast and as solid as theirs does.

Here is the Quantum shifting recommendations from John's site. It's about 1/2 way down the page: https://www.quantumechanics.com/categories.php?op=newindex&catid=11

 

[YankeeTR]

The crossmember will be removeable and I will have to drill/tap the J-type to match the TR trans mount.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's that simple. The J-type sits farther back (assuming you are using the Triumph adapter and mainshaft), so the housing literally goes through where the stock TR2 mount would be.

My car is an original OD car and I would love an A-type but I only have about $20.00 invested in this J-type and that was just too good of a deal to pass up. I should be able to get the whole deal installed for less that $150.00.

Wow ! Where did you find even just the mainshaft and adapter for that kind of price ??? The Volvo parts don't fit ...

I got a J-type adaptor from a local for $10.00. And I got a mainshaft on ebay for $35.00...a little rusty and definitely not pretty but it will clean-up just fine.

There's a local guy here who parts out British cars and he said he has a TR6 trans coming in and he'll trade me for one of my empty TR6 cases and two parts TR3 transmissions. That will help keep the cost down.

The driveshaft will be the most expensive thing at about $70.00 plus u-joints if I need 'em.

If I spend $200.00 total I will still be doing OK.