TR2/3/3A old 4 bolt axle set up

[sp53]

I have my project up in the dirty old barn in a damp Washington estate; you can tell by warm looking pics. I put the frame up on some sawhorse and then set the rear axle on the frame and bolted it down to the frame. I figured this would be easier on my back and I would figure out a way to get the project off the sawhorse when the time comes.

I am not a real liner worker and have moved to removing the axles to see what this old 4 bolt axle set up needs. However, I cannot seem to remove the axle by pulling by hand. The old Complete Triumph Manual suggests using a Churchill tool. I am thinking some kind of wedge of maybe purchasing some kind of axle puller slide hammer deal. What do you guys suggest?

Thanks Steve

 

[CJD]

The brake backing plate also holds the outer axle bearings. Undo the 4 backing plate bolts and the hub and axle should slide right out.

Also, since you have the large hub nuts removed, the hub should pull right off the axle. There is a split, cogged, tapered washer that you can see in the 1st pic. That may have to be tapped loose to free the hub from the axle splines. Otherwise, you can easily press the hub off once you remove the axle. The washer is currently impossible to find, so use care not to damage it.

 

[sp53]

Thanks John, do you mean lightly go around hub with the splined washer and tap it with a hammer to free it with vibration? I cannot visualize how the washer stays in place and why it will not pull out with the axle.

Could I have just removed the 4 bolts and the whole assembly would have slide out with the large not in place.

steve

 

[sp53]

I have researched getting that splined tapered collar out, but I cannot tell if it has a split in it to expand it open to slide out. I do not see a split in picture and see no way to expand it if there was and both sides are stuck. The book is kind of ambiguous and suggests that the wire wheel version has the spilt. I found a guy that was working one on the Triumph Experience without the split, but he is unclear if he ever got it apart.

It looks to me like I should be able to remove the ½ axle without the Churchill tool by smacking the hub out with a block of wood and hammer or use a slid hammer and deal with the splined tapered collar once the half axle is out. I would hate to damage the splined collar. I do not mean to put you on the spot, but what do you think would it damage anything if I force the ½ out without removing the collar?

Steve

 

[CJD]

The washer is splined to grab the axle. It is also tapered on the outside, to both center the hub and provide a force to close the split and lock on the axle splines. I think the split will become apparent once it is removed. My car came with disc wheels, and I bought the special wire hub axle from Marv. Both axles I dealt with had split washers. I would try tapping around the outside of the hub in various directions to loosen the washer. If that does not work, then save it until you have the axle removed, and then you can press on the axle as you tap around the hub until the washer releases. Once the washer releases, the axle will slide right out of the hub. You should not need the special puller like is required on the Girling hubs.

"Yes", you could remove the hub and axle ...and backing plate ...very easily as an assembly. You may have to tap to free the bearing as it comes out, but it should not be as difficult as the later Girling axle is. The bearing is a ball bearing, not a tapered bearing. That means that the inner and outer races will stay together. The race must be tapped out of the axle tube, and then pressed off the axle. It should be a slide fit on both...not pressed. It should tap right off with minimum difficulty.

In your first picture you can see the reason these hubs always leak. There is enough difference between the washer and axle splines that it can never be sealed. when you put it back together, use sealant all over the washer area...and it will work for almost a year, but will then begin to drip. I just take the time to wipe the oil every few months, rather than go to the trouble to pull the hubs and re-seal them.

 

[mctriumph]

Removal of the outer hub is a job for a professional ,NOT a DIY thing at all. Once the machine shop has
safely taken it apart, you can re-build it no sweat. I have seen several hubs destroyed for want of good tools.
Mad dog

 

[CJD]

Maddog, you are thinking of the later Girling hub, which can be a real bear to remove. The Lockheed hubs can easily be removed on the side of the road. They had such a history of axles breaking that it was not uncommon for owners to carry a spare axle in the boot. The hub slides off the Lockheed axle.

 

[sp53]

Thanks John for your help, I got the ½ axle out and tried to push the axle out by lightly smacking the axle back through the hub to free the splined tapered collar, but no joy. I got the 1/2 axle out by using a punch through one of the holes in the 4 bolt flange from the back. Those holes are low enough and free form brake backing plate interference. The ½ axle came out easily once I got the correct angle.

The little collars are a different story. In addition to try smacking the axle out from where the hex nut fits and back through the hub with no joy, I tried just holding the axle upside down and dropping it down on a block of wood hopping the collar would fall out.

The collars are set in about 1/8 from the surface where the nut and washer can push down. There was a leather washer in that 1/8 area below grade, so perhaps that set them more tight when tighten down. I am not sure if axle float can make the collar tighter or not. It looks like the collars have been removed before, but if I had not read about the collars I would think they are actually part of the axle.

Perhaps I need to hit the axle back though with more force, but I must say this causing me some dyslexia, so I could be hitting the wrong end.

steve

 

[CJD]

Hmmm. I see what you are saying. I don't see a split, although I do see a couple (possible) small cracks radiating out from the splines. I will have to look at pics of my split collar washers...I think you may have a different version?!?

 

[CJD]

Doing some research. You may find this helpful:

TR2/3/3A - different hub collars

Hey guys After another day of rummaging through this pile of parts that apparently forms a TR2, i come across another curve ball that i am hoping someone can answer for me. i have unearthed a total of 4 rear hubs of two slightly different designs. Most obvious of which is the taper on the...

www.britishcarforum.com

I notice in the thread above that the collars are not split fully through, but have multiple splits only on the inside. That is why we do not see a split in your pics. All my collared washers were cracked completely through, and I have yet to find a replacement.

I would try tapping the hub in the up and down direction. In other words, not as though you are trying to remove the axle, but as though you are trying to shock the taper into releasing. Similar to when you release the taper from a steering ball joint by whacking the link between 2 hammers at the same time. The idea being to resonate the metal into releasing the taper lock.

 

[sp53]

Thanks John for looking around. I got it apart with a wheel puller on the hub and then to the axle center. It did pop pretty well when coming apart. The collar looks like it could be two pieces stuck together with the one outer piece stuck into a large piece in the hub. I am not sure. I am thinking leave it in there because it looks stuck on the sides and not centered in the larger piece. Heck it could be one piece, but there is a gap inside between the two splined pieces. Then again there would not be a reason to build it with gap if it did not come apart.

Perhaps this is different set up. The set up looks like the book, but the book could have better pics they are dark and fuzzy. I see what you mean about leaking oil. This set up is like a trimming chain seal and the hub has some deep scaring. Hopefully you will see something I don’t in the pics.

Steve

 

[sp53]

Thanks for those pic John, now that I know what I am looking for, I can see the splits. I will study it more to see if I can separate the two without damaging anything.

steve

 

[CJD]

Good job! I bet the PO used a sealant that has the taper in the hub and washer collar locked together. If it is, then a little heat would help to weaken the sealant.