oil pan

[brdave]

I have a friend who is looking for an oil pan for a 1960 Bugeye Sprite with a 948cc engine. If my memory serves me right does the early MG Midget share the same engine as the Healey Sprite? Would the oil pans be interchangable and if so can members of this forum make any suggestions of where I can find one near Ontario that I can pass on to him?

Thanks,
brdave

 

[jlaird]

All pans are the same 948, thru 1275.

 

[Dug]

brDave,
The answer posted on mgexperience from the AKD book is correct. 948cc and 1098CG are the same but not the 10CC or 1275cc.
Sprite or Midget with a 948cc will work. 10CG's engines are not as common but still around in good numbers.

Dug

 

[brdave]

I would like to thank you all for this information. I will pass this on to my friend who will be very pleased.

regards
brdave

 

[Hap Waldrop]

None of the pan will interchange except the 1098 large and small main pans. Learned this over the years having race oil pans made for the A series engines with Winners Circle.

Like I posted over on the MGex, I have a good used 948 oil pan if you want one.

The differences in the oil pans have to do with the front and rear oil pan rail gaskets.

 

[Dug]

Hap,
Knowing there are errors in the AKD books, what exactly is the difference between the 948 and early 1098?
We can leave the late 1098 and 1275 pans out of this question.
Is it the dipstick pressing in the pan? From the experience of building race pans, please tell what the difference is.
Thanks in advance for defining this. I see the front and rear rail as the reason. Is it size or width?
Dug

 

[jlaird]

Geese, thanks Hap. Guess I was wrong again, never would have thought.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Hap,
Knowing there are errors in the AKD books, what exactly is the difference between the 948 and early 1098?
We can leave the late 1098 and 1275 pans out of this question.
Is it the dipstick pressing in the pan? From the experience of building race pans, please tell what the difference is.
Thanks in advance for defining this. I see the front and rear rail as the reason. Is it size or width?
Dug

Dug, The dipstick are totally different to and don't enterchange, the 948 dipstick simply rest on a indention in the oil pan where the 1275 had "stop" on the dipstick itself.

It has to do with the "half moon" opening on the fornt and rear of the oil pan in the differences in the oil pans, the are different sizes based in this area on the main bearing sizes, and main cap differences. Somoeone recnetly informed to that the small bore pan also have a raised area on the pan rail as well. Bottom line if you try to put a 948 pna on a 1275 it won't fit, there will be no doubt in your mind it is the wrong pan, with the 1275 pan on the 948 you will gapping space at the half moon openings at the front and rear of the oil pan.

 

[Dug]

Thank you Hap,
I’d like to bring up some points please. And please understand this is not to argue in a negative way, but I’d like to follow up with a couple of observations. As said from the beginning of the thread, we can discount the 1098 2”main engine and the 1275 engine no question there.
However, 948 (all 1-3/4 mains) and early 1098, 1-3/4” main engines (CG) I feel are the same as listed in the factory books (again, “could” be wrong).
I say this because both the 948 and 1098 (small main only) pans measure approx 3.67-3.68 at the point where the arc meets the pans rails. The area where the cork seal fits.
They are the same both front and back. Also the main caps,(again front and rear) of the 948 and 1098 (1-3/4”small main only) measure 3-1/8” +/- where the pan seals (the cork taking up the difference with some crush).
This is why I believe the 948 and 1098 1-3/4” small main pans will interchange.
The 948‘s dipstick does rest on the pressing in the pan while the 1098 rest on the plastic tube. Funny but the pressing is still in the 1098’s pan “as if”….
Sorry to be pesky about this but I have heard the AKD books have some errors to them.
I wanted to follow up with this for my own knowledge. I have a few of these very engines here in my garage/shop to measure and play with.
I did measure a 2" main 1098 and found it to be a good deal larger in both the pan and the main cap dimensions. But that is a given.

Dug
Question please, is it rare to see a 1098 1-3/4" engine built to race?

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I don't dispute what you are saying, my only source for that is what Rob Gorgi told me at WC, I have tested 948 pans on 1275, and vice versa, and know they don't fit, but I have never test the 1098 small journal vs the 948 pan.

I've built one 1098 small journal race engine, it's still out there running too. People just opted for the 10CC engine, due too larger main journals, plus as factory crankshafts elvolved in years, so did the grade of steel they used, they starting using harder grades of steel in the cranks over time. I think it's all about the rpm limits you are going to turn, if you are SCCA racing and wanting to turn 9000 rpms, then a billet crank is the way to go, but if you are racing vintage and turning 7000-7500 rpms then the stock crank properly preparred will give you some good service. Eventually everything breaks under racing stresses, if raced long enough.

 

[Dug]

Again, Thanks Hap.
I wondered if the 1098 small main was used at all in vintage or SCCA events. It has such a weak crank as you pointed out.
Since Clive tricky and Vizard days, the small main 1098 has been seen as “don’t hold a rev” above 6000 for extended time sort of engine. I assumed most people that build engines to perform need to know are as bullet proof as can be, don’t look at the 1098 small main engine much.
The most common remark was, they make a good boat anchor.
I ran one for a street engine for many years and collected quite a few over the years, as no one wanted them (read cheap). Good engines if not stressed.

Dug