oil/oil additives for stock Bugeye engine?

[ichthos]

I am about ready to change the oil in my rebuilt 948. I ran the rebuilt with 30 wt for the first 500 miles to break it in, and I have not taken it above 50 mph. I had asked earlier about what oil to use, and the most common suggestion was Valvoline 20-50 wt racing oil, that includes zinc. I am running ZDDP additive in my TR6, and my question is, should I also include this in my Bugeye ?
Kevin

 

[abarth69]

Just use the Valvoline VR1 20-50 wt racing oil you will be fine.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Westfield_XI]

Brad Penn oil, the green stuff rules!!! I use it in my 1380 A-series and my 540 cu in BBC. No need to buy ZDDP since it is already in there.

 

[Sarastro]

Virtually all higher-viscosity oils are fine for a midget. I would NOT use racing oil. You're not driving a racer, and the idea that "if it's OK for racing, it must be even better for street use" doesn't hold with oil any more than with, say, a camshaft. Don't get hung up on the ZDDP issue. Almost all 20W-50 oils have plenty.

I use Valvoline or Chevron Supreme 20W-50.

 

[Spridget64SC]

One thing to keep in mind is that street application motor oil is moving to the new "SN/GF-5" specification. The means a new phosphorus retention ZDDP to further mitigate catalytic converter fouling.

Zinc is the key "protector" of camshafts, lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, wrist pins, distributor gears, retainers, bearings and all those other engine parts that have metallic surface to surface interaction.

Zinc is a polar molecule that is attracted to carbon steel surfaces and reacts under heat and load to create a sacrificial film. This protective coating is what prevents metal to metal contact and wear.

The balance/battle between detergents/dispersants and anti-wear additives for the same surface areas is a complete area of study for lubrication engineers.

For the vintage auto-enthusiast, it all boils down to identifying and obtaining a suitable motor oil that accomplishes the goals of protecting the engine components (especially flat tappet cams/lifters) from wear and providing the necessary detergent.

At this moment, the better commonly available oils to use are the ones rated API CJ-4. This is primarily a diesel rating, but assures the user that there is a nominal 1200 PPM Zinc/Phosphorus. Find an oil that has dual SM and CJ-4 rating and the proper detergents for gasoline engine use will also be present.

I'm still a Valvoline product user and recommend VR-1 Racing oil. Change at a 3K-mile frequency. The VR-1 has both adequate anti-wear properties and detergents for the A-Series engines. There are special "break-in" oils where Zinc/Phosphorus are over 2500 and Sulfur approaches 10K. They are only to be used for engine break-in and definitely not with catalytics.

Picked up a copy of "Modern Motor Oil Update" by Joe Gibbs Racing at the recent AERA seminar at Hendrick Motorsports last week. A lot of my words above are also contained/repeated in this document. Bet it is on Joe Gibbs Oil website as well.

So much has to be known about the design of the engine to match it with the formulation of the oils, that a note here cannot even begin to address all the the considerations.

HTH,
Mike Miller

 

[Westfield_XI]

I thought I remembered from my aircraft training that there was never metal to metal contact except at startup? Once the oil pressure comes up, parts always ride on an oil film. Was this incorrect? Or does it only apply to plain bearings and not roller or ball bearings? Not that an LBC has any ball or roller bearings in the engine anyway.

 

[Spridget64SC]

W-XI, You're correct, The oil wedge is what starts centering the crankshaft journals in the oil film. The oil wedge essentially lifts the crankshaft journals in the bearing bores. The oil pressure provided by the pump then maintains the film for the bearings. Things like camshaft, lifter faces, rocker pads, and the like don't really have an oil wedge to rely upon. They get mostly splash, flood or spray lubrication. Pressure lubrication of the lifter faces can be achieved by EDM of the cam lobes and gun-drilling the core. The front cam bearing is pressure fed and some of this pressure can be diverted down the cam core and out the lobe base circles.

Oil is a coolant as well and essential for heat removal in the valve train. Valve spring life is directly related to keeping the springs coated with fresh oil and the heated oil drained off.

Some of the roller rockers used in SCCA race engines have roller bearings on the rocker tips to actuate the valves and needle bearings in the rocker arms themselves that ride on the shaft. The needle rollers are a bit of a mis-application for the function, but sure look nice.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

FWIW, Vavoline VR1 is not a true racing oil, yeah we use in the race engines but it is designed for use in regular street engines as well, it has as Mike mentioend a detergent package and a low foaming additive, as well as 1200 ppm of ZDDP, it's readily available at most part stores and not that expensive, so it's good choice on our engines.

True racing oils have no detergent package in them so they are not suitable for long oil change intervals, most racers change their oil and filter after every weekend, Vavoline, Red Line and other make a strictly for racing oil, that you would not want to use in your street engine. You'll never be able to walk into your local parts store and buy a true racing oil, it would be special order or hidden behind the counter, nothing on the shelves at your local parts store is not suitable for a street engine, the oil companies make sure of this, so you can be insured that Vavoline VR1, while listed as a racing oil, has everything in it that you would ever want for solid lifter street engine like ours, and thats exactly what I use in my street engine and recommend to my street engine customers, it's great oil for our engines.

 

[billspit]

I suspect Valvoline calls the VR1 a "Racing oil" to keep people from putting it in later cars and damaging the cataytic converters.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I suspect Valvoline calls the VR1 a "Racing oil" to keep people from putting it in later cars and damaging the cataytic converters.

Probably, even weirder, they for awhile had decals on the bottles that stated "good for flat tappet engines", what I found weird about this, is not many folks in the US refer to lifters as tappets, thats a British term, funny it would say that on bottle sold in the US

You can get the special order Vavoline "racing only", but we've had good results with the normal VR1 in the race engines, so we still use it for racing, as well as the street and the race engine look great when feshened up, so what more can one ask for. The oil is also very popular with the circle track and drag racing folks too. When it's circle track season around here, and if you live near a racetrack, make sure you don't wait late in the week to buy VR1, it will all be off the shelves, and gobbled up by all the racers.

 

[regularman]

This oil thing is a hot topic with motorcycle forums too. My opinion, we are not going to be driving these things very far between oil changes like an every day car and so it is never going to get the the miles to worry about what oil we use. Oil is probably going to get changed at least one a year and as long is it is new clean oil, its going to be ok. Now, with Haps racing motors that are going to be facing serious work on the track, that is going to be different.
My little 200cc motorcycle seems to be running fine after 26K miles with havoline or Walmart supertech in it. All the time Dealers telling me I needed special "motorcyle oil" with Zinc, etc for the engine to last. I think what matters is #1 there is oil in the engine and #2 the oil is clean. I know I put about 1-2K miles on the MG a year and I hope I live long enough to wear it out at that rate. I think I have put less than 4k on it since 2008, and change the oil 3 times. I think the rings are still wearing in and seating. Though I did have a scare with it pumping the oil out when that o ring slipped out of the canister filter and I went through 6 quarts of oil to make it home, I think it is ok. Looking forward to stretching its legs a bit when I get to Elkhart lake, I if get the chance.