• The Roadster Factory Recovery Fund - Friends, as you may have heard, The Roadster Factory, a respected British Car Parts business in PA, suffered a total loss in a fire on Christmas Day. Read about it, discuss or ask questions >> HERE. The Triumph Register of America is sponsoring a fund raiser to help TRF get back on their feet. If you can help, vist >> their GoFundMe page.
  • Hey there Guest!
    If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource, if you appreciate not having ads pop up all over the place and you want to ensure we can stay online - Please consider supporting with an "optional" low-cost annual subscription.
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this UGLY banner)
Tips
Tips

TR2/3/3A Oil Leaks

Redoakboo

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
I think I'm closing in on my oil leaks, in my newly restored 54 TR-2. The last leak appears to be in the area of the fuel pump? After running the engine for several minutes, watching oil leak out in a constant drip, the gasket around the fuel pump shows alot of oil dripping from the gasket.
The fuel pump is new, as well as the gasket. I have reached The Peter Principle on solving oil leaks.

Any suggestions?


Dick
 

sp53

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
The Peter Principle does not apply to a triumph. The cars are not manufactured anymore and we are all like Dutch boys putting our fingers in the Triumph dike of oil leaks. Driving an early TR is an evolutionary experience of engineering with new problems coming to fruition from Places that normally could not leak oil. Kinda, like the discovery channel, no Peter Principle just an all-encompassing leak.
 

sp53

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
I think there is a fitting for the oil gauge in that area there also. Let it leak until you are more comfortable with the car and keep your eye on the source and amount; it is normal to have those problems with a new old rebuilt motor; I doubt you will let it run out of oil. A little oil looks big. I often used baby power dusting in the general area to find the leak it will turn a different color where the leak is, but I heard David used some flour, should work the same.
 

DavidApp

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Are you sure it is the fuel pump not the oil gallery plug a bit above and to the rear of the fuel pump. The oil is under pressure there not just being splashed around.

David
 

Merlin63Tr4

Jedi Trainee
Country flag
Offline
The fuel pump could have a distorted mounting flange/base even if new.

M.
 
OP
R

Redoakboo

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
David,

I really had a big leak when I first cranked the engine. I had left the plug off at the rear end of the head. After I corrected that problem, I discovered the oil filter attach housing leaking bad. I took it off and discovered small pieces of the "O" ring still in the slot, under the new ring I put on. Is the plug you referenced a different one then the one on the backside of the head?
 

Sarastro

Obi Wan
Silver
Country flag
Offline
I'll echo David's comment--I had an awful time sealing those plugs in the oil gallery. I don't understand why it was so difficult, but some of the copper washers I used didn't fit well, and I ended up making my own sealing washers. Then added sealer and torqued them pretty well.

It can be tricky sometimes to find the sources of those leaks.
 

Graham H

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
Have you rechecked the plug at the back of the head, it should have a copper washer to help seal it.

Graham
 

CJD

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Copper is self sealing. If you are re-using a copper washer, however, you must anneal it back to soft, as it work hardens and loses is sealing ability after use. To anneal simply heat with a torch to red hot and gradually allow it to return to dark metal by feathering the torch. Once dark, remove the heat and let it air cool on its own. Finish by sanding the faces flat and smooth with 600 grit paper on a perfectly flat surface.
 

sp53

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Dick I am not sure what you are sealing. Copper washers are an excellent sealer. If you are sealing those 3 special bolts that go into the block above cam bearings. I would use a copper washer and put some aviation gasket sealer on the bolt also, and I would let the sealer set up some maybe 15 minutes that depends on temperature and amount; the heat speeds up drying time and the amount of thickness takes longer, easy stuff. The aviation seal would work good on the threads of the bolt and perhaps help the copper some on the face seal.
 
OP
R

Redoakboo

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
Those three plugs seem to be O.K. The leak is in the transmission. The plug in the bottom that looks like a freeze plug, if it were on the engine, is leaking transmission fluid.I plan to drain the transmission to change the gasket on the large brass overdrive plug. When I get it good and dry, I would like to apply some type of sealant around the seam to stop the leak

Dick.
 

sp53

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Dick , when you sent me some pics by email, I tried to post them and they would not post. It looked to me like the format the picture was taken in could not be posted, but I am sure of that stuff. The Jpegs format always post well.
 

CJD

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
I have a engineering degree, so have spent a lot of time taking tests on that. When you heat to cherry red the metal becomes amorphous, or without grain structure. If you cool fast by quenching, the grain structure becomes very small and interlocked. That hardens the metal, making it strong but but too brittle to be useful. If the metal cools slowly, then it forms a large grain structure that has less internal stresses. Large grains unstressed is called "dead soft". To "heat treat" a metal you heat to amorphous and then quench in water or oil (or other fancy liquids depending on the alloy) to its hardest state. The next step is to heat the hardened metal to a temperature slightly below the temp to make it amorphous, and hold it there for a specific time. This relaxes the internal stress and somewhat softens the metal while retaining the strength from the small grain structure. When you buy metal, the "T4" or "T6" tells you the level of heat treating it has received. T4 would be less strong but softer than T6.

The other way of affecting hardness is to "work harden" a metal. This stretches the grain structure through bending the metal, once again making it harder, stronger, and more brittle. "H" on the metal designation tells you the amount of work hardening it has received, like H3.

Now lets relate this to our copper. It comes dead soft. Once you crimp it under a bolt head it is soft enough to conform to the steel bolt and engine block. This also work hardens the copper into a harder state. If you re-use it, it is not soft enough to conform, so if the surfaces of the bolt head and block are too rough, it cannot seal a second time. Thus the need to anneal.

Annealing is done by heating to amorphous and slowly cooling to allow the grain structure to re-form into nice large and unstressed grains. Some jet engine fan blades are 3 feet long, but carefully cooled in a vacuum and very slowly into a single grain! Large grain is soft but very fatigue resistant. Fortunately, some metals, pure copper being one, are not heat treatable. That is how you can get away with quenching it in water while red hot. But the proper way of annealing any metal is to slow cool it to dead soft. Copper, although not heat treatable, is work hardenable.

The key takeaway is that every metal and its alloy behaves differently when subjected to work and temperature hardening. You can get away with quenching pure copper in water. If you do the same to steel it will turn into the hardest, brittle and unusable metal...martensite.
 
OP
R

Redoakboo

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
John,

I too, have a engineering degree from Ga Tech. To save time, I always buy new copper washers when needed.

Thanks, Dick
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
K TR2/3/3A Oil leaks at two front cylinder head studs? Triumph 3
Nelson Oil leaks again Spridgets 1
D Oil leaks Spridgets 22
lbcspinners A- H Frog E: no more Bugeye oil leaks! Austin Healey 4
M PCV and oil leaks Austin Healey 53
T external sealant for oil leaks Spridgets 6
warwick-steve Oil Leaks - What is normal/typical? Austin Healey 4
M Can synthetic oil be cause of leaks? Spridgets 5
T Oil leaks under carb are - tappet inspection plate Spridgets 6
T sealing oil leaks in a horizontal joint Spridgets 6
rlich8 Introduction/Oil Leaks Triumph 14
K Oil Leaks! Triumph 10
RJS Crankcase Pressurization and Oil Leaks Triumph 11
T OIl Pan, no leaks Triumph 18
M new engine rebuild, new type oil seal and LEAKS ?? Triumph 15
T oil leaks Triumph 32
M Oil leaks continued Austin Healey 16
M Oil Leaks Again Austin Healey 7
M Oil Leaks Austin Healey 17
E T-Series Oil pipe leaks on '50 TD-help! MG 7
M Common engine oil leaks Austin Healey 16
chrisc Wedge TR8 Oil Leaks Triumph 2
Atrus Let's talk oil leaks ;-] Spridgets 16
G 1967 Midget rear end leaks oil Spridgets 12
Woodie starter works,, but now oil LEAKS !! Spridgets 13
S British cars and oil leaks explained!!! MG 2
G Carb oil leaks out MG 8
af3683 TR2/3/3A Recommended Oil Filter Cartridge for Purolator Triumph 8
R oil pressure Spridgets 2
RickPA Overdrive Oil Pressure Austin Healey 8
6 Valve Oil Seals Spridgets 10
RJS TR4/4A Smiths Oil Temp Gauge Triumph 11
J MGB Oil Pressure Gauge Gives Constant Reading -- Doesn't Seem Right MG 15
Lotuswins Dry Spin-On Oil Filter Austin Healey 14
Todd78d Oil Spridgets 6
Erica General MG Oil Drain Valve -- mine is an MGB, but they have others MG 3
G Right-Side Shock Weeping Oil Austin Healey 1
scottkilpatrick TR4/4A Gear oil and choke question Triumph 4
D TR2/3/3A cylinder head oil plug bolt size Triumph 6
G High Oil Pressure Austin Healey 2
T Spin-On Oil Filters for Cars with a Brake Servo Austin Healey 3
Bayless What oil for Datsun 5 speed? Spridgets 7
T Spin-On Oil Filters Anti-Drain Back Valves Austin Healey 0
T Spin-On Oil Filters Austin Healey 1
K TR2/3/3A Old school penetrating oil? Triumph 24
R TR6 question re: Engine Oil Triumph 3
nevets Spin-On Oil Filter Adaptor Austin Healey 12
D Overdrive Stops Working After Oil Change Austin Healey 26
AUSMHLY BJ8 Differential Oil Change Austin Healey 6
Celtic 77 General MG Lever shock oil refiller MG 0

Similar threads

Top