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David
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David
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TR2/3/3A Not for the faint of heart: Fender Horror Show
- Thread starter RJCOX
- Start date
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We are members of the TRF club so at least there is that discount.
I'm going to check out and document that fender today and come up with my plan of attack. I'm opting for the 16 gauge because it's easier to find around here than the 18. My thought is that 16 would be better for the flanges that 22 though probably harder to work it's better for my meager welding skills.
I'm going to check out and document that fender today and come up with my plan of attack. I'm opting for the 16 gauge because it's easier to find around here than the 18. My thought is that 16 would be better for the flanges that 22 though probably harder to work it's better for my meager welding skills.
Every vendor is. The only fenders you l find cheap are a set of fiberglass fenders somebody decided not to use .
I found a fender cheap (needs work) in California, but the seller won't ship. About an hour north of LA.
Flange is in incredible shape and the repair panel that resides in it is plain to see. Can't tell the amount of bondo, but considering the backside of the fender it doesn't look like there could be too much, but....$130! Looking to see if a relative could get it for me and ship it. Even with a load of bondo it's in better shape than mine.
I had a procedure done on my neck Monday (epidural anti-inflammatory) and felt like I'd been hit by a truck. I always do for a few days, but we have a storm coming in and had to go down to the shop to get the snow-blower ready. I looked at the fender standing there, mocking me. So I thought I'd look at it in daylight. My new shears were calling to me as I planned to cut off the old flange.
I noticed that a lot of the flange, and the top of the fender looked in really decent shape considering.
So I thought I would cut off just part of the flange to start with. I could make a new flange, though shorter, and weld it into place. Cutting the flange off just where the crappy repair was would allow me to access the back of the dented area on the front and pound them out.
This scabbed in part broke my brand new shears. So I brought out the cut-off wheel.
I cut the flange off fairly high up (about half of it) due to it being brazed, damaged, rusted and the like. I tried to cut as close to the top skin as possible since I would need something there to weld to. I had originally thought to cut it to the bend of the skin, but having to run that kind of bead right where it could be easily seen....I'm not quite there in my welding skills, yet. I then proceeded to try and get the remnants of the flange (as much as I could) out of there. While I had the tools out, I also cut away the section that my repair panel will be replacing. I'll have to replace half of the rear flange, but I saved the cut off piece so I most likely will be able to weld it back in. I have a sheet that I laid out a pattern for a second repair panel so no problem making a new rear flange from that.
Got my new hammer and dollies out and started to try to get some of the shape back into the top front of the fender. I'm no where close to finished but it is starting to look better.
And the rusted out section that was removed
Flange is in incredible shape and the repair panel that resides in it is plain to see. Can't tell the amount of bondo, but considering the backside of the fender it doesn't look like there could be too much, but....$130! Looking to see if a relative could get it for me and ship it. Even with a load of bondo it's in better shape than mine.
I had a procedure done on my neck Monday (epidural anti-inflammatory) and felt like I'd been hit by a truck. I always do for a few days, but we have a storm coming in and had to go down to the shop to get the snow-blower ready. I looked at the fender standing there, mocking me. So I thought I'd look at it in daylight. My new shears were calling to me as I planned to cut off the old flange.
I noticed that a lot of the flange, and the top of the fender looked in really decent shape considering.
So I thought I would cut off just part of the flange to start with. I could make a new flange, though shorter, and weld it into place. Cutting the flange off just where the crappy repair was would allow me to access the back of the dented area on the front and pound them out.
This scabbed in part broke my brand new shears. So I brought out the cut-off wheel.
I cut the flange off fairly high up (about half of it) due to it being brazed, damaged, rusted and the like. I tried to cut as close to the top skin as possible since I would need something there to weld to. I had originally thought to cut it to the bend of the skin, but having to run that kind of bead right where it could be easily seen....I'm not quite there in my welding skills, yet. I then proceeded to try and get the remnants of the flange (as much as I could) out of there. While I had the tools out, I also cut away the section that my repair panel will be replacing. I'll have to replace half of the rear flange, but I saved the cut off piece so I most likely will be able to weld it back in. I have a sheet that I laid out a pattern for a second repair panel so no problem making a new rear flange from that.
Got my new hammer and dollies out and started to try to get some of the shape back into the top front of the fender. I'm no where close to finished but it is starting to look better.
And the rusted out section that was removed
kstanley44
Member
Offline
RJCOX, your wing looks somewhat familiar with what I will be faced with. My inner wing required the outer 1 1/2 (the portion with cage nuts) to be cut off and replaced. Unfortunately this was wide enough that the seam will not be covered when the outer wing is re-installed. Hence I will weld, grind, weld and grind until I get it right. I did patch this in pieces since I didn't think I could manage one long thin piece for butt welding. The outer wing has obviously been hit at one time, looks like a lot of bondo on the front. I love the picture Lionel posted of his patch, but I have neither the tools or skills so I am not sure how that will be fabricated. I also need to replace the flange and like the approach Lionel suggested although I didn't think you could bend into the correct radius curve with the short flanges already formed. Have to try that. Fortunately the back portion of the wing looks pretty good.
I have switched to using only 18 ga sheet metal. 20 ga is nice to bend but my welding skills lead to more blow through. I did buy a new welding helmet, replacing one from Harbor Freight, with good optical clarity ratings and it makes a difference. I can see what I am doing much better.
I live somewhat south of you, in Moseley, near Richmond. Have to compare progress sometime. In Richmond there is a Metal Supermarket franchise where I buy sheet metal. Online you will find shipping charges to be as much as the metal!!
See pictures.
I have switched to using only 18 ga sheet metal. 20 ga is nice to bend but my welding skills lead to more blow through. I did buy a new welding helmet, replacing one from Harbor Freight, with good optical clarity ratings and it makes a difference. I can see what I am doing much better.
I live somewhat south of you, in Moseley, near Richmond. Have to compare progress sometime. In Richmond there is a Metal Supermarket franchise where I buy sheet metal. Online you will find shipping charges to be as much as the metal!!
See pictures.
Offline
Hi Ron, I am not sure how close his place but might be worth a call. Fredericksburg machine and steel 504-373-7957 If they don't have what you want I am sure they can point you to a local supplier that can help you. I felt the same about my frame but said I can read a tape measure and I can read drawings, I will figure the rest out as I go. The back of my body is in bad shape so it is waiting as I am taking Lionel's advice and let it set as I look at it and figure out a plan, what to work on first in order to figure out the puzzle. Good Luck Frank
@Kerry: I'm lucky my inners were in excellent shape, just the wings. Fabbing the flange will be the easy part, getting the curve right is another thing entirely.
@Frank: called them already, good if I want them to do the work. They can order 4+ foot sheets though but the cost was more than the internet supplier posted earlier.
I'm going to play with this 16g sheet I got for $8 locally and see where it takes me. Replacing my pneumatic shears with a nibbler though
@Frank: called them already, good if I want them to do the work. They can order 4+ foot sheets though but the cost was more than the internet supplier posted earlier.
I'm going to play with this 16g sheet I got for $8 locally and see where it takes me. Replacing my pneumatic shears with a nibbler though
If the pneumatic shears were HF it is probable a good idea to replace them. I had a pair that would hardly cut paper. They struggled with 20 gauge. Replaced them with the electric version.
I used this to do long straight cuts as I do not have a shear. I got it at Northern tool on sale. Cuts great and I have used it to cut material up to 1/2" thick.
https://www.grainger.com/product/3W...D_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!317451745590!b!!g!!
David
I used this to do long straight cuts as I do not have a shear. I got it at Northern tool on sale. Cuts great and I have used it to cut material up to 1/2" thick.
https://www.grainger.com/product/3W...D_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!317451745590!b!!g!!
David
I wont be cutting anything quite long, and unfortunately I'll be cutting across and up and back down a fender.
The first set of shears I got were actually really good, but I tried to get them to do something they weren't made to do. I got the nibbler and wasnt thrilled.
They don't leave a very nice edge (unlike the shears) and cutting a straight line with them is troublesome. They really don't like curved metal too much either.
I'll need them when I cut my flange though as they will be made from the 16g. I'll replace the shears with with another set and try not to push them as hard. I got some 20g today and will be fabbing a larger repair panel.
Yep, I ended up cutting out the canning. The metal was so thin there it's no wonder why it was canning so badly
The first set of shears I got were actually really good, but I tried to get them to do something they weren't made to do. I got the nibbler and wasnt thrilled.
They don't leave a very nice edge (unlike the shears) and cutting a straight line with them is troublesome. They really don't like curved metal too much either.
I'll need them when I cut my flange though as they will be made from the 16g. I'll replace the shears with with another set and try not to push them as hard. I got some 20g today and will be fabbing a larger repair panel.
Yep, I ended up cutting out the canning. The metal was so thin there it's no wonder why it was canning so badly
No pics today. Picked up a new set of shears and cleared off a workbench just the length of my front cowl. Pulled down the fenders to Dad's TR (61) to see if his flanges are in decent shape. Passenger side looks pretty rough, but the driver's side looks a bit better, still suspect, but better. His fenders have some sheet metal welded into them (way back when) that apparently came from a locker of some sort. The skin of his LH fender had come away in a couple of places from the vertical part of the flange, still, I'll start there for my pattern, then lay it against the cowl.
One more roadblock, no cage nuts on either fender. I didn't know or realize there were supposed to be 5 on each. Got a big can of loose nuts and bolts that I haven't sorted yet, maybe there's some in there, but they're probably for something else so I might just buy some. Sure, making the cages could be fun, but I just don't have the tools to make the nuts.
What size might I be looking for? I would hazard to guess that the bolts have long since been replaced with something else that could bolt into a fastener clipped onto the cowl (found two remaining clips on one cowl, and 3 on the other).
I think my TR might have been yellow in it's previous life. My hood/bonnet, both doors, rear fenders and trunk lid are all yellow as is one of my cowls. Granted, they are in remarkable shape, so may have come from a donor car, though the yellow cowl has seen some action, and though not major, more than a little. My grey primer cowl, may not be grey primer. I pulled it down today and have rust popping up all over the place. I'll be changing gears a bit this weekend and hitting it with a wire brush and rust-converter. It's got a little canning on the bottom edge so that needs to get taken care of first.
Unfortunately, I also need to take care of brakes and rotors on my wife's Accord. That shouldn't take all day I hope. I go back to work on Monday, so better make good use of my time.
One more roadblock, no cage nuts on either fender. I didn't know or realize there were supposed to be 5 on each. Got a big can of loose nuts and bolts that I haven't sorted yet, maybe there's some in there, but they're probably for something else so I might just buy some. Sure, making the cages could be fun, but I just don't have the tools to make the nuts.
What size might I be looking for? I would hazard to guess that the bolts have long since been replaced with something else that could bolt into a fastener clipped onto the cowl (found two remaining clips on one cowl, and 3 on the other).
I think my TR might have been yellow in it's previous life. My hood/bonnet, both doors, rear fenders and trunk lid are all yellow as is one of my cowls. Granted, they are in remarkable shape, so may have come from a donor car, though the yellow cowl has seen some action, and though not major, more than a little. My grey primer cowl, may not be grey primer. I pulled it down today and have rust popping up all over the place. I'll be changing gears a bit this weekend and hitting it with a wire brush and rust-converter. It's got a little canning on the bottom edge so that needs to get taken care of first.
Unfortunately, I also need to take care of brakes and rotors on my wife's Accord. That shouldn't take all day I hope. I go back to work on Monday, so better make good use of my time.
Meant to take it easy this weekend and try my hand at fabbing the flanges for my fenders. I got waylayed by my wife's brakes. Does anyone else's spouse wait to tell you their car is acting funny or making a strange noise? Mine did.
She said her brakes were making a little noise.
I've replaced my brakes, rotors and calipers a few times (well, calipers on each wheel once) and normally a little noise tells me it's time. In the stop and go traffic I am in (her as well) I go through a set of pads in about 2 and half years (sometimes less) and where I buy them (AutoZone) I get a 3 year warranty on rotors, and lifetime on pads, and calipers. It's fun for me and I do the whole car in one go (no calipers since last replacement). I only did the calipers once when they started hanging on one wheel, then I did all 4 (apparently Jeep calipers need replacing/rebuilding after 100k). So I got the rotors and pads for her Honda and set aside a few hours to get it done yesterday.
It rained and poured and was freezing (well, it was cold but no ice). Honda brakes are not like Jeep brakes in the slightest. Watched a YouTube video or two and dove in. Way more bolts and needed to find an impact screwdriver. It would've been nice to just hang the brakes since the caliper bracket is bolted down even with the caliper off, but the rotor was toast. Why was it toast you ask? I know, most of us would change it anyway even if it wasn't (on the surface) TOAST. Someone's brakes had been making noises for a lot longer than she said.
Now, many of us here have a great dislike for those before us who do bad or rushed repairs. There is really nothing worse than finding you have to spend twice as long fixing something that someone else took a shortcut on. We are the second owner's of this car. The PO gave us this car because it was eating oil. I mean, a quart or more a month. They were never informed of a technical recall (really?) for just such an issue. I found out about the recall before I titled the car and Honda replaced most if not all of the engine. Dunno if it was a rebuilt, or re-manufactured one, but when I picked it up, it looked brand new. The invoice said, "replace engine, warranty". Now we had to wait for the engine first (a week) and they had the car for 3 days. Don't know, don't care, free car. And it was a nice car too. PO stopped driving it due to oil appetite.
Then my wife started driving it.
Back to the brakes. Whoever last serviced the brakes failed to grease the caliper piston, and slides and the piston kept extending as the pads wore down (unevenly) until there was no pad left and the pad chewed into the rotor.
Even with a caliper compression kit, I could not recompress the caliper enough to squeeze new pads in there. Added onto the delay of not being able to find the impact screwdriver (Dad found it in one of his many drawers of tools) and I was cold and tired from being cold. Off came the caliper and into the Jeep and out to the Zone. I took the pads with me just in case, and I wanted to make sure (since there was nothing left of the old pads) that these thick pads were right. They pulled two other part numbers (gold and performance) and they were all the same thickness (darn). They went to get me a caliper, and as they are ringing me up, let me know that I would have it Wednesday (this was Saturday). NO WAY! Told them that wouldn't do (they're normally quite helpful otherwise) and they suggested O'reilly's down the road. Found it, bought both sides went and grabbed some lunch, remembered I couldn't remember if I had DOT3 on the shelf and went back. On sale, yay, bought two big bottles (we have a few cars that use it) and headed back.
I was right, the other caliper was just as bad, the pads a little less bad. Bleeding the brakes was a chore. I swear, I bled them six times and they still felt squishy. Oh, she forgot to tell me her E-brake wasn't really up to snuff either.
You know the restoration shows where the car in question keeps having more and more problems they find? Seven hours in, both sides are done, brakes still a little squishy and E-brake is topping out. Now, I didn't get to the E-brake yesterday, banged that out today (you have to pull the center console out after you wade through all the trash and spilled coffee) and bled the brakes one more time (topped the fluid off one more time too) and viola, she's a done boss!
I did get to go out and pick up some red-oxide primer and practice my patch making skills on the fender from ****. In other good news, I have (or Dad has) a line on a pair of fenders. One of the many members of a TR club sponsored by TRF had a list of a bunch of parts (4 pages long) including all 4 wings (sold as front pair or rear pair) and though he noted bondo on the rears, he mentioned nothing on the fronts. I'm hoping he gets back to us soon with some pictures. We've bought from him before and he's really straightforward on the condition of his parts when you talk with him. We bought a heater rheostat from him the first time and when he said like new, we took that with a grain of salt. When it arrived it was, Like New. I have no illusions that these are NOS or even pristine, but any has to be better. But I at least am having a learning experience with it. I've gotten good at using the angle grinder to cut and grind welds (also gotten good and wearing them out too!). I think I've used a whole spool of wire in the wire welder. I've gotten better at hammer and dolly, though I've a long way to go with that skill.
I think I'm going south this week to check out MetalSupermarket for some real 18g. It's time to get serious and fab a real repair panel.
She said her brakes were making a little noise.
I've replaced my brakes, rotors and calipers a few times (well, calipers on each wheel once) and normally a little noise tells me it's time. In the stop and go traffic I am in (her as well) I go through a set of pads in about 2 and half years (sometimes less) and where I buy them (AutoZone) I get a 3 year warranty on rotors, and lifetime on pads, and calipers. It's fun for me and I do the whole car in one go (no calipers since last replacement). I only did the calipers once when they started hanging on one wheel, then I did all 4 (apparently Jeep calipers need replacing/rebuilding after 100k). So I got the rotors and pads for her Honda and set aside a few hours to get it done yesterday.
It rained and poured and was freezing (well, it was cold but no ice). Honda brakes are not like Jeep brakes in the slightest. Watched a YouTube video or two and dove in. Way more bolts and needed to find an impact screwdriver. It would've been nice to just hang the brakes since the caliper bracket is bolted down even with the caliper off, but the rotor was toast. Why was it toast you ask? I know, most of us would change it anyway even if it wasn't (on the surface) TOAST. Someone's brakes had been making noises for a lot longer than she said.
Now, many of us here have a great dislike for those before us who do bad or rushed repairs. There is really nothing worse than finding you have to spend twice as long fixing something that someone else took a shortcut on. We are the second owner's of this car. The PO gave us this car because it was eating oil. I mean, a quart or more a month. They were never informed of a technical recall (really?) for just such an issue. I found out about the recall before I titled the car and Honda replaced most if not all of the engine. Dunno if it was a rebuilt, or re-manufactured one, but when I picked it up, it looked brand new. The invoice said, "replace engine, warranty". Now we had to wait for the engine first (a week) and they had the car for 3 days. Don't know, don't care, free car. And it was a nice car too. PO stopped driving it due to oil appetite.
Then my wife started driving it.
Back to the brakes. Whoever last serviced the brakes failed to grease the caliper piston, and slides and the piston kept extending as the pads wore down (unevenly) until there was no pad left and the pad chewed into the rotor.
Even with a caliper compression kit, I could not recompress the caliper enough to squeeze new pads in there. Added onto the delay of not being able to find the impact screwdriver (Dad found it in one of his many drawers of tools) and I was cold and tired from being cold. Off came the caliper and into the Jeep and out to the Zone. I took the pads with me just in case, and I wanted to make sure (since there was nothing left of the old pads) that these thick pads were right. They pulled two other part numbers (gold and performance) and they were all the same thickness (darn). They went to get me a caliper, and as they are ringing me up, let me know that I would have it Wednesday (this was Saturday). NO WAY! Told them that wouldn't do (they're normally quite helpful otherwise) and they suggested O'reilly's down the road. Found it, bought both sides went and grabbed some lunch, remembered I couldn't remember if I had DOT3 on the shelf and went back. On sale, yay, bought two big bottles (we have a few cars that use it) and headed back.
I was right, the other caliper was just as bad, the pads a little less bad. Bleeding the brakes was a chore. I swear, I bled them six times and they still felt squishy. Oh, she forgot to tell me her E-brake wasn't really up to snuff either.
You know the restoration shows where the car in question keeps having more and more problems they find? Seven hours in, both sides are done, brakes still a little squishy and E-brake is topping out. Now, I didn't get to the E-brake yesterday, banged that out today (you have to pull the center console out after you wade through all the trash and spilled coffee) and bled the brakes one more time (topped the fluid off one more time too) and viola, she's a done boss!
I did get to go out and pick up some red-oxide primer and practice my patch making skills on the fender from ****. In other good news, I have (or Dad has) a line on a pair of fenders. One of the many members of a TR club sponsored by TRF had a list of a bunch of parts (4 pages long) including all 4 wings (sold as front pair or rear pair) and though he noted bondo on the rears, he mentioned nothing on the fronts. I'm hoping he gets back to us soon with some pictures. We've bought from him before and he's really straightforward on the condition of his parts when you talk with him. We bought a heater rheostat from him the first time and when he said like new, we took that with a grain of salt. When it arrived it was, Like New. I have no illusions that these are NOS or even pristine, but any has to be better. But I at least am having a learning experience with it. I've gotten good at using the angle grinder to cut and grind welds (also gotten good and wearing them out too!). I think I've used a whole spool of wire in the wire welder. I've gotten better at hammer and dolly, though I've a long way to go with that skill.
I think I'm going south this week to check out MetalSupermarket for some real 18g. It's time to get serious and fab a real repair panel.
LionelJrudd
Jedi Trainee
Offline
Ron, what is an E-brake?
Lionel
Lionel
Rhodyspit75
Jedi Knight
Offline
Emergency brake or parking brake.
Sorry, parking brake. I've always referred to them as that. You can grab the handle to actuate your rear brakes in the event of hydraulic failure.
May have a line on a set of fenders but can't see them before April. I will still move forward on the old fender as an excercise though. Just in case.
Hoping for some warmer weather to get some red oxide on the front apron. Whatever was on there didn't stop it from getting rusty.
May have a line on a set of fenders but can't see them before April. I will still move forward on the old fender as an excercise though. Just in case.
Hoping for some warmer weather to get some red oxide on the front apron. Whatever was on there didn't stop it from getting rusty.
Drove the 63 miles down to metal supermarket and met Alessandra and Linsay. Had a nice visit and grabbed a couple of 18g remnants.
Ordering pre-cut sized sheets was cheaper including delivery, but my two remnants are actually larger than the 24x24 listed on the site. At the shop a single 24x24 would have cost me $43 because they would have to cut them. I got two sheets, each larger than 24x24 for $28.
I got enough to play with and still finish what I started.
Cheers
Ordering pre-cut sized sheets was cheaper including delivery, but my two remnants are actually larger than the 24x24 listed on the site. At the shop a single 24x24 would have cost me $43 because they would have to cut them. I got two sheets, each larger than 24x24 for $28.
I got enough to play with and still finish what I started.
Cheers
When will this cold stop?
Found wire (cold rolled) for the fender radius and am itching to fab a panel for my basket case fender, but it's too darned cold to work. Just whining, I'm being lazy. Heading out now.
I really need to get the tub settled properly on the frame so I can weld the A and B post as well as braces so the tub can come back off for paint.
Ron
Found wire (cold rolled) for the fender radius and am itching to fab a panel for my basket case fender, but it's too darned cold to work. Just whining, I'm being lazy. Heading out now.
I really need to get the tub settled properly on the frame so I can weld the A and B post as well as braces so the tub can come back off for paint.
Ron
My first attempt at fabbing a panel was mediocre at best. Tried to roll metal over the wire and my bottom corner looked frightening. Gave up for the day and will grind it off and try again.
Got a good start on flange channel though. Need to figure out how to radius it.
Got a good start on flange channel though. Need to figure out how to radius it.