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TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
That's interesting about the bullets being too big ... makes me wonder if perhaps your DPO tried to substitute the wrong couplers. Or maybe you're just looking at where the original vinyl sleeves have shrunk over time ? The bullets are usually a very snug fit through the shrunken end of the vinyl (for the 2-opening couplers) but can be forced through with needle-nose pliers or similar. Once they are in place, I push & pull on the wire. If the bullet slides with only moderate force, the coupler is probably bad.
Come to think of it, the kit I got from Dan (and never installed) had no bullets or couplers with it at all. Evidently he has changed his mind about using them (or got too much heat from people like me :G)
Come to think of it, the kit I got from Dan (and never installed) had no bullets or couplers with it at all. Evidently he has changed his mind about using them (or got too much heat from people like me :G)
danmas
Jedi Trainee
Offline
I've been advised I need to drop in here and do a little explaining, and perhaps do a little defense of our kits.
In the 18 years that I've been offering electrical help on TRs, the most common problem by far has been a failure of the turn signals after using the hazard switch. The hazard switch, not being used very often, gets nasty and the TS contacts don't make good connections. The TS power runs through the hazard switch, so when it gets bad, the TS won't work. On my own '71, I took the hazard switch apart and cleaned it twice before I got tired of it and replaced it with a standard toggle switch.
As Randall pointed out, I revised the T\turn signal/hazard wiring on our kits from the standard factory design. Why? Because in order to put the hazard switch in front of the turn signal switch, as the factory did, either a special relay or a special switch was needed. To get these special relays or switches, you either had to buy them from a British parts vendor at a high price, or or buy a hard-to-find relay from an electrical supply house, which could be hard to find. The original turn signal switch is used with our kit, only the hazard switch is replaced. The DPDT switch we supply can be bought almost anywhere.
Now for Dales problem. Given that all four turn signal/hazard bulbs work and flash when the hazard switch is operated, the only area left for the problem is inside the unshaded area in the picture below. Given that neither side works with the turn signals, it is unlikely that both wires from the TS switch to the hazard switch, or the hazard switch itself is bad. The fuse feeding the TS flasher is common to several other items, which I assume are working ok, so we know the fuse is not bad.
That only leaves the flasher itself, the LG/N wire to the TS switch, the connector in the wire, or the the TS switch itself. Check for voltage on the LG/N wire at the switch. If you have voltage here, then the switch is bad. If not, then there is a problem with the flasher or the LG/N wiring.
As to why the flasher is clicking but the lights aren't operating, I'm puzzled. The flasher needs a load to operate, but it doesn't need a full load like the original flashers did. Even a test lamps will operate it.
The bullets/connectors we supply come from British Wiring, and are as original. The bullets are indeed hard to insert, as they should be for a good connection.
In the 18 years that I've been offering electrical help on TRs, the most common problem by far has been a failure of the turn signals after using the hazard switch. The hazard switch, not being used very often, gets nasty and the TS contacts don't make good connections. The TS power runs through the hazard switch, so when it gets bad, the TS won't work. On my own '71, I took the hazard switch apart and cleaned it twice before I got tired of it and replaced it with a standard toggle switch.
As Randall pointed out, I revised the T\turn signal/hazard wiring on our kits from the standard factory design. Why? Because in order to put the hazard switch in front of the turn signal switch, as the factory did, either a special relay or a special switch was needed. To get these special relays or switches, you either had to buy them from a British parts vendor at a high price, or or buy a hard-to-find relay from an electrical supply house, which could be hard to find. The original turn signal switch is used with our kit, only the hazard switch is replaced. The DPDT switch we supply can be bought almost anywhere.
Now for Dales problem. Given that all four turn signal/hazard bulbs work and flash when the hazard switch is operated, the only area left for the problem is inside the unshaded area in the picture below. Given that neither side works with the turn signals, it is unlikely that both wires from the TS switch to the hazard switch, or the hazard switch itself is bad. The fuse feeding the TS flasher is common to several other items, which I assume are working ok, so we know the fuse is not bad.
That only leaves the flasher itself, the LG/N wire to the TS switch, the connector in the wire, or the the TS switch itself. Check for voltage on the LG/N wire at the switch. If you have voltage here, then the switch is bad. If not, then there is a problem with the flasher or the LG/N wiring.
As to why the flasher is clicking but the lights aren't operating, I'm puzzled. The flasher needs a load to operate, but it doesn't need a full load like the original flashers did. Even a test lamps will operate it.
The bullets/connectors we supply come from British Wiring, and are as original. The bullets are indeed hard to insert, as they should be for a good connection.
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OP
Tinster
Guest
Guest
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Thanks Dan and everyone:
I got up very early to work on the TR since I'm going mahi
mahi fishing anyway.
Here is what I found. No current along the LG/N wire
anywhere. I tested it with the battery connected and
ignition turned on, with coil wire pulled out.
I replaced all the fuses- still no current on the LG/N wire
I swapped out the blinker can- still no current on the LG/N
Relay box No1 felt hot to touch- 106* with IR gun
All other relay boxes at 79* ambient.
I swapped out relay box1 and the new one quickly shot to
105*-107*.
Now I am totally over my head and late for my fishing trip.
See ya'll this afternoon.
[/img]
I got up very early to work on the TR since I'm going mahi
mahi fishing anyway.
Here is what I found. No current along the LG/N wire
anywhere. I tested it with the battery connected and
ignition turned on, with coil wire pulled out.
I replaced all the fuses- still no current on the LG/N wire
I swapped out the blinker can- still no current on the LG/N
Relay box No1 felt hot to touch- 106* with IR gun
All other relay boxes at 79* ambient.
I swapped out relay box1 and the new one quickly shot to
105*-107*.
Now I am totally over my head and late for my fishing trip.
See ya'll this afternoon.
OP
Tinster
Guest
Guest
Offline
any thoughts?
d
d
TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Dale,
Since Dan said he doesn't monitor the forum, you should probably contact him (or Mike) directly.
My take is that the socket behind the "power relay" has failed and is making a high resistance connection to the relay itself, causing the high temperature. Might possibly the be the wiring inside the "power block", but I think the socket is more likely.
Usually, there is a way to disassemble the contact from the socket, in which case you might be able to clean and bend it to make good contact. However I don't know offhand how to do that for the socket you have, and I would guess that Dan will want to replace the socket rather than try to mess with repairing it.
Since Dan said he doesn't monitor the forum, you should probably contact him (or Mike) directly.
My take is that the socket behind the "power relay" has failed and is making a high resistance connection to the relay itself, causing the high temperature. Might possibly the be the wiring inside the "power block", but I think the socket is more likely.
Usually, there is a way to disassemble the contact from the socket, in which case you might be able to clean and bend it to make good contact. However I don't know offhand how to do that for the socket you have, and I would guess that Dan will want to replace the socket rather than try to mess with repairing it.
danmas
Jedi Trainee
Offline
Hi, Dale,
106 degrees is well within the normal range for this type relay, so there's no problem there. That is the heating of the relay coil. The other relays were colder because they weren't on. They will all have a similar temperature when they are operating. This temperature worried me when I was designing the system, so I tested a large number of relays, from different makers, and the temps ranged from 110 - 140 degrees.
Do your windshield wipers and gauges work? If so, then there is no problem with the fuse, as they share the same fuse. If you're not getting power on the LG/N wire, then you either have a bad flasher, or a problem with the wiring. Check the installation of the flasher to be suire the prongs are inserted into the sockets properly. If not (and it's easy enough to insert them improperly), then there could be enough resistance in the circuit to allow the flasher to click, but not enough to light the lamps. These flashers, unlike the factory units, will operate with very little current.
106 degrees is well within the normal range for this type relay, so there's no problem there. That is the heating of the relay coil. The other relays were colder because they weren't on. They will all have a similar temperature when they are operating. This temperature worried me when I was designing the system, so I tested a large number of relays, from different makers, and the temps ranged from 110 - 140 degrees.
Do your windshield wipers and gauges work? If so, then there is no problem with the fuse, as they share the same fuse. If you're not getting power on the LG/N wire, then you either have a bad flasher, or a problem with the wiring. Check the installation of the flasher to be suire the prongs are inserted into the sockets properly. If not (and it's easy enough to insert them improperly), then there could be enough resistance in the circuit to allow the flasher to click, but not enough to light the lamps. These flashers, unlike the factory units, will operate with very little current.
OP
Tinster
Guest
Guest
Offline
Thanks Dan,
Yes, wipers anf gauges work just fine.
The greeen hot wire from fuse to blinker can is dead
at the can socket side . Probably what knocked loose
when I hit the pothole. I can wiggle the green wire
quite alot. I don't have the correct allenhead to remove
can socket. I'll get one tomorrow.
Thanks and BTW:
The Dan Masters Power Block is a wonderful replacement to
the mess I had from DPO Pedro. I could not pull apart most
of the bullet connectors when I rewired/replaced the turn
signal wiring. I had to chop out the bullets and sleeves
and then install new ones. The connections are very strong
even with 'lectric grease on them.
I'll report back sometime Sunday.
Thanks everyone.
dale
Yes, wipers anf gauges work just fine.
The greeen hot wire from fuse to blinker can is dead
at the can socket side . Probably what knocked loose
when I hit the pothole. I can wiggle the green wire
quite alot. I don't have the correct allenhead to remove
can socket. I'll get one tomorrow.
Thanks and BTW:
The Dan Masters Power Block is a wonderful replacement to
the mess I had from DPO Pedro. I could not pull apart most
of the bullet connectors when I rewired/replaced the turn
signal wiring. I had to chop out the bullets and sleeves
and then install new ones. The connections are very strong
even with 'lectric grease on them.
I'll report back sometime Sunday.
Thanks everyone.
dale
OP
Tinster
Guest
Guest
Offline
Well, I once again have turn signals and the problem
was pretty subtle. The pothole was the culprit.
The green power lead to the turn signal blinker can
from the fuse box got pulled off the blinker pin but
did not fall out of the socket. Everything LOOKED A-OK.
Except no current was flowing thru the blinker can.
I think the very slow doink, doink, doink with no
lights lit was probably the result of me pushing the
blinker can just enough to barely touch the slipped out
power lead.
I think I'll order an extra set of blinker cans, sockets
and also prewired with proper color coded wires :to carry
as spares. That will save me hours and hours of diagnostics.
Oh well, all the wires behind the dash relating to turn
signals and emergency hazzard lights have now been replaced
with new. They system sould be trouble free for a few
hunderd miles now.
Goona street Amos to today and see how he goes.
thanks all for the help.
And David- thanks a million plus for teaching me how to
use the electric testing gizzmo box. It is great tool.
d
was pretty subtle. The pothole was the culprit.
The green power lead to the turn signal blinker can
from the fuse box got pulled off the blinker pin but
did not fall out of the socket. Everything LOOKED A-OK.
Except no current was flowing thru the blinker can.
I think the very slow doink, doink, doink with no
lights lit was probably the result of me pushing the
blinker can just enough to barely touch the slipped out
power lead.
I think I'll order an extra set of blinker cans, sockets
and also prewired with proper color coded wires :to carry
as spares. That will save me hours and hours of diagnostics.
Oh well, all the wires behind the dash relating to turn
signals and emergency hazzard lights have now been replaced
with new. They system sould be trouble free for a few
hunderd miles now.
Goona street Amos to today and see how he goes.
thanks all for the help.
And David- thanks a million plus for teaching me how to
use the electric testing gizzmo box. It is great tool.
d
Brosky
Great Pumpkin
Offline
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] the electric testing gizzmo box. It is great tool.[/QUOTE]
More commonly referred to as a "multimeter" or digital ohmmeter, although gizzmo covers a lot of options.
Happy motoring! Just get in the car and drive, but avoid potholes. If they can shake those wires loose, they will play havoc on your newly rebuilt suspension.
More commonly referred to as a "multimeter" or digital ohmmeter, although gizzmo covers a lot of options.
Happy motoring! Just get in the car and drive, but avoid potholes. If they can shake those wires loose, they will play havoc on your newly rebuilt suspension.
OP
Tinster
Guest
Guest
Offline
Yo Jeff,
Maybe only having 7 1/2 hours drive time with 22 months
break down time might make a person a bit paranoid. The
vast majority of my drives have ended in break downs.
Once the car broke down backing out of my drive way.
Considering I started with a "almost 100 restored to
showroom condition " car. I have had many things go wrong
and fall apart.
Like my expensive rebuilt dizzy with Petronix ignition
failed after 200 miles. Might make you a tad paranoid.
They are THINKING about bringing towing insurance packages
to PR. That would be great.
On the other hand- I was driving Amos the other day on
the expresso when a Lexus started beeping his horn and
motioning me to pull over to the shoulder. I thought maybe
Amos was on fire or something grim like that.
Turns out the gentleman met his wife in college when he
owned a 1969 TR6 and just wanted to see mine for old time
memories. Felt good.
d
Maybe only having 7 1/2 hours drive time with 22 months
break down time might make a person a bit paranoid. The
vast majority of my drives have ended in break downs.
Once the car broke down backing out of my drive way.
Considering I started with a "almost 100 restored to
showroom condition " car. I have had many things go wrong
and fall apart.
Like my expensive rebuilt dizzy with Petronix ignition
failed after 200 miles. Might make you a tad paranoid.
They are THINKING about bringing towing insurance packages
to PR. That would be great.
On the other hand- I was driving Amos the other day on
the expresso when a Lexus started beeping his horn and
motioning me to pull over to the shoulder. I thought maybe
Amos was on fire or something grim like that.
Turns out the gentleman met his wife in college when he
owned a 1969 TR6 and just wanted to see mine for old time
memories. Felt good.
d
Dale, I fully understand your feelings about breaking down, but there comes a time to suck it up and just go for it. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
It <u>is</u> a good feeling to have someone enthuse over your car because <u>they</u> had one, or it brings back fond memories for them.
Keep smiling, but more importantly, keep /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
Jeff
It <u>is</u> a good feeling to have someone enthuse over your car because <u>they</u> had one, or it brings back fond memories for them.
Keep smiling, but more importantly, keep /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
Jeff
If you really want to fix the turn signals on a 6 you should forget the flasher placement of the stock wiring and have a look at the tr4 wiring diagram.Put the early style flasher close to the column so that the wires from the switch reach it easily.Supply the switch with 12 volt power(not from the modifier!!)This fix hurts nothing and only takes 5 minutes......and works like a champ!
MD(mad dog)
MD(mad dog)
PeterK
Yoda
Offline
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] the electric testing gizzmo box. It is great tool.[/QUOTE]
In a pinch, you MacGyver a continuity tester/test light from a flashlight battery, flashlight bulb, and a scrap of wire.
So carry a flashlight and a piece of wire in your trunk ... or a VO meter.
In a pinch, you MacGyver a continuity tester/test light from a flashlight battery, flashlight bulb, and a scrap of wire.
So carry a flashlight and a piece of wire in your trunk ... or a VO meter.
TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Considering the odds of a flashlight actually working after spending a few months bouncing around in my trunk ... why bother ?PeterK said:
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90899