No Spark Sparky

[kkaa]

Hello everyone, new poster but long long time viewer. Been reading and putting to good use all the incredible info from just a ton of folks, especially, Keoke, Yoda and Dave R.

What me and the kids are stumped with is no power to the coil. We have a 60 BN-7, doing a full restore, negative ground, all components electrically new. Its a pertronix ignition with a flame thrower coil. Harness has white to +, distributer red to coil +, and black from dist to - on coil (we removed the white w/black tracer from harness for now) We have tried to test the coil. Its showing 3 ohms which i think is correct.

The lights work front and back, all dash lights work, fuel pump works, starter turns over like a champ, good oil pressure, but no spark.....


Can someone post a pic of the ignition wiring under the dash please. Im thinking its wrong, but i have the old harness and labeled everything on the way out.

FYI, We have been following the Austin Healey shop manual, but its not adding up. Also, used Andreas Picasa pic below and called Blane at Moss, still stuck.

https://picasaweb.google.com/112770819864514987162/DropBox#5848222494024288690



Kurt

Were a lot further than this, so will add the pics tonight....

https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#

 

[Keoke]

Harness has white to +, distributer ----???????

 

[andrea]

Hi Kurt
Here some more pictures that can help you,
BUT the problem can be the Battery Switch test and control it and connections

The better electrical connection test is a simple 12V lamp connected stable to ground and with one other wire pitching the tested connection, with this you can follow the electricity flow from the Battery, and check where are the problem

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CUoFt_4JxThCpmc_vm_rFtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sMvxnoMZl6t65ZqUo5uZ8dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6uYjjazeIzIyajS3KtPe7NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tToy4JvSKmiT5Mcbc1oZa9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Cheers

 

[kkaa]

Harness has white to +, distributer ----???????

Thank you Keoke for the help!!! I wrote that wrong, its the coil. So, we have the harness with the two coil wires, white to +(CB) and white-black-tracer to the (SW)- side of coil. The harness itself also has a pigtail, not sure whats this is for? Please find this link to a couple pics we took and the kids are volunteering to take as many as we like!!!

Coil pics https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#5885957463177515778
coil Pics https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#5885957472782350914

Here is a pic of the ignition switch, do i have the whites on the wrong side??? The first link is now, the second like is the original harness with two whites soldered together and the brown-blue....

Now https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#5885957541476529186
Before https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#5885964015821441346

and the last question, sounds like a goose chase but the throttle linkage wiring is now different. The book calls for the White-purple to be on the left, my pics were on the right, andreas pics of wiring had it on the the right. So now we dont know which is "right" wheew....


Now https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#5885963979419284306
Before https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#5658574006119973794


Thank you again for the help!!! Funny thing, we have been slowly at this, me longer, im color-blind and had to wire it with the kids tell me the colors as we connected stuff!!! hahahahahahah

Andrea, so you know we have been studying your pics for a year straight and the car, well its to this point with your helpful drop box and this forum!!!

This is the battery disconnect. We have the white-black-tracer from the harness going to the top of the switch, negative terminal of battery going to top post and the last bottom post going to a ground on the bottom of the bump box. I did not sand the bump box for the ground, if I need too let me know. I replaced the original switch with this new one thinking it was possibly bad because when we would do tone tests it would not be a solid tone, kinda "crackle" ? So on the safe side, we replaced and heres a pic. Tonight Ill take the wheel off and re-do......

https://picasaweb.google.com/118044082885935817926/Austin#5885957633256391202

 

[andrea]

Hi Kurt
is a very strange situation
here my actual OD relay connectionprobably one error on my wiring diagram, I remember tha I have solved one problem when I have make the connection on the car BUT never remind what (Alkzaimer?)
Here my actual connetion for COIL

NOT consider the BLEU wire, are a connection for the Hourcounter that you see on the rear-
the BLACK wire go to the 123 distributor
You can DISconnect the wire from the Battery Switch,just for...
https://www.chicagolandmgclub.com/techtips/general/574.html
Hope that can help you to find the trouble
Cheers

 

[kkaa]

Ill go over these, thank you very very much for posting. At this moment, I replaced the coil, have the red (+) from the distributor going to the + (CB) side of the coil, and the black (-) of the distributer going to the SW(-) side of the coil. With a meter, i get 0 volts with switch off, 12V with switch on at the coil. (meter is on the positive side of coil and grounded to car). But when I crank the engine, the engine cranks, but no spark from the coil wire to the car.

Ive tried three new coils, two flamethrowers, 1 lucas sport and all test 3ohm. Ive also tried the NGK wire to the ground in the spark test and Cobalt wire, same thing, no spark while cranking the engine. This is a mind bender for me and the kids, but were still trying.....

UGGGGGGGGG

 

[Randy Forbes]

Have you considered going back to the original (type, not necessarily a 50 year old set...) points and condenser? At least to rule out the possibility of the wiring variations having damaged the electronic bits. Pertronix' and Flamethrowers, et all, are nowhere near as forgiving as the simple and basic contact points, though it is possible to find a defective condeser once in a while.

While the markings on the coil "CB" (contact breaker, or points) and "SW" (ignition SWitch, the power supply source) are for the positive ground battery connection, which understandably are reversed for your car, being converted to negative ground, it still is confusing!

For the record, at least with the points setup, the engine will still fire and run if the coil wires are reversed, maybe only showing a fault at high RPM.

An age-old test if you have spark, is with the key on and the distrubtor cap off, you should see arcing (sparks!) across the contact points each time they open (discharging the magnetic field built up in the coil windings).

 

[kkaa]

Just swapped the pertronix ignition (Great Idea Randy) for a new Pertronix and got a duh daaahhh. Woow!!! Close and so excited stopped to get ready for fire!!! Ill write later, if im sober, I had 2 beers in disgust and think that did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[andrea]

just swapped the pertronix ignition (great idea randy) for a new pertronix and got a duh daaahhh. Woow!!! Close and so excited stopped to get ready for fire!!! Ill write later, if im sober, i had 2 beers in disgust and think that did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hurraaaah!!!!

 

[Keoke]

"full restore, negative ground"

IF you are neg GND:

And the coil is marked CB & SW then the CB goes to the Ignition switch and SW goes to GND via the Dizzy. .

 

[andrea]

here my actual OD relay connection View attachment 27587probably one error on my wiring diagram, I remember that I have solved one problem....

Just controlled my Wiring diagram on my album (last, improved 100/6 version)
https://picasaweb.google.com/112770819864514987162/SCHEMAImproved1006?noredirect=1
it is right
please referring to this, for electrical works on 100/6, I will control and amend my WD on others albums
Cheers

 

[kkaa]

This is perfect Andrea, Ill stick to the same, White-Purple on W1. Ive been using a print version of one of the electrical wiring diagrams on your album, its much cleaner to see than me and a magnifying glass with the manual. We do cross reference everything and this wire, the white-purple is on the opposite side in the manual, thats what threw us off......

here my actual OD relay connection View attachment 27587probably one error on my wiring diagram, I remember that I have solved one problem....

Just controlled my Wiring diagram on my album (last, improved 100/6 version)
https://picasaweb.google.com/112770819864514987162/SCHEMAImproved1006?noredirect=1
it is right
please referring to this, for electrical works on 100/6, I will control and amend my WD on others albums
Cheers

 

[kkaa]

Update. Not like a good engineer doing one thing at a time, we swapped out everything at once. We replaced the pertronix ignition, coil, rotor, and we hit the starter for a second and got our first "duhdump"!!! So, we have spark!! Ill bench test the pertronix and let everyone know if that was bad. The coil did test 3ohm, so I think that leaves the ignition or rotor?

I stopped there for the brief moment, I was bleeding off the clutch and sprang a leak in the master cylinder so repairing now. Might sound silly, but we wanted the motor to be last, if it fires, set timing and carbs and check mechanicals by driving in the parking lot.

Might sounds sad, but we've never heard a Healey before, just soooo excited....Hope thats the proper order of things.

"full restore, negative ground"

IF you are neg GND:

And the coil is marked CB & SW then the CB goes to the Ignition switch and SW goes to GND via the Dizzy. .

 

[Randy Forbes]

Update. Not like a good engineer doing one thing at a time, we swapped out everything at once. We replaced the pertronix ignition, coil, rotor, and we hit the starter for a second and got our first "duhdump"!!! So, we have spark!! Ill bench test the pertronix and let everyone know if that was bad. The coil did test 3ohm, so I think that leaves the ignition or rotor?

I stopped there for the brief moment, I was bleeding off the clutch and sprang a leak in the master cylinder so repairing now. Might sound silly, but we wanted the motor to be last, if it fires, set timing and carbs and check mechanicals by driving in the parking lot.

Might sounds sad, but we've never heard a Healey before, just soooo excited....Hope thats the proper order of things.

You're in for a treat

 

[kkaa]

Update. It Runs!!! Ok, ill post the feed later today, we shot a video and share the scary horrifying, frightening, nerve racking moments of the first fire-up in 40yrs....

Now ready for the punchline? After the fireup fluid was pouring out of the hole at the base of the bell-housing of the gearbox. I added the extra rear-main seal that ah spares sells, so was pacing thinking of all our work to prevent leaks, but it turns out to be the gearbox. Thats the only part i farmed out, to have that looked over and I bet the 1st motion seal is either missing or bad.

Bad news, but better than other things. SO, today were pulling out the gearbox from the top, i think this is the best way, and will repair the whopping $3 dollar part. Not sure if i should bring the unit to another place to check out, but it does go into all its gears. Thoughts?

 

[British_Recovery]

Firing up the engine shouldn't cause oil to pour out of the gearbox, I think. If it were leaking, just sitting there it would come out. Fire it up with the gearbox out. Support the back of the engine with a cross rod or something and bolt on the starter. then you can see if the oil is coming from the engine. Bob

 

[Randy Forbes]

Not all of the side-shift gearboxes have seals, but rely on a reverse scroll to direct the oil back into the enclosure__same as the crankshaft. Under the best of circumstances, these only leak a drop or few when you shut it down, the shaft no longer slinging the oil back to the innards.

If you're getting a steady flow of oil, it's not coming from the gearbox...

 

[Keoke]

Now ready for the punchline? After the fireup fluid was pouring out of the hole at the base of the bell-housing of the gearbox. I added the extra rear-main seal that ah spares sells, so was pacing thinking of all our work to prevent leaks, but it turns out to be the gearbox. Thats the only part i farmed out, to have that looked over and I bet the 1st motion seal is either missing or bad. -----I doubt that.

My experience is some diy installations of the rear main seal do not seal.?

Glad to hear you have it runing---

 

[kkaa]

Pulled the gearbox this am, turns out to be my fault, a $3 first 1st motion seal on the gearbox was missing. I didnt make sure it was in, so what a silly mistake. I did look, only see drips from the front of the back plate, so at the moment, looks like the extra insurance of the crankshaft seal is working well.

What a mistake, also watched $65 in red line fluid drip to the floor.....


Ordered and will hope to button up by wens/thurs.

https://www.ahspares.co.uk/austin-h...eed-Side-Change/OIL-SEAL-1stmotion-shaft.aspx

Now ready for the punchline? After the fireup fluid was pouring out of the hole at the base of the bell-housing of the gearbox. I added the extra rear-main seal that ah spares sells, so was pacing thinking of all our work to prevent leaks, but it turns out to be the gearbox. Thats the only part i farmed out, to have that looked over and I bet the 1st motion seal is either missing or bad. -----I doubt that.

My experience is some diy installations of the rear main seal do not seal.?

Glad to hear you have it runing---

 

[57_BN4]

Not all of the side-shift gearboxes have seals

Yes, a very British (expensive) way of making a seal that doesn't work. Fortunately it is dead easy to fix the leak from the earlier boxes by boring the inside out to take a regular seal.