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Next job[s] on Otto - thoughts?

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Not sure I understood but if you press the pedal and it goes solid then slowly goes to the floor there is a leak. If you don't find any sign of external leaking then it would be inside the master cylinder. I don't remember whether you replaced or rebuilt it. If you have to pump the pedal to get pressure then that usually means you need to adjust the shoes more. Also bleeding brakes will not cause them to need further adjustment though. Finally, a "mushy" pedal is usually a sign of air. As Jim said, "bleeding ... is challenging."
 
I need a little more testing to see exactly how it's acting. May be first of the week before I can do it now... But, once you pump up some pressure on the pedal, it doesn't sink to the floor... it seems to hold that pressure. Let off for few seconds then hit the pedal again... pressure is gone, but you can pump it up again and repeat. I've done nothing to the master cylinder at all... except bang my head on the hood repeatedly while checking the fluid level.
 
And Front Tilt Bonnet options eliminate banging your head.
 
So no time to work today, but I did a pedal test and have better info on how it behaves... Here's how it works...

Get in the car, push the pedal, goes nearly to the floor, maybe a bit of resistance at the bottom.
Pump the brakes... each pump the pressure increases and the pedal goes less distance down.
4-5 pumps and the pedal has nice, decent pressure with appropriate distance of travel.
Hold the brake pedal.... I held up to a minute ... no loss of pressure. The pedal stays where it is, no loss of pressure.
Let off for 1 or 2 seconds, and the push the pedal once again to the floor. Repeat.

I did this test several times and it behaved consistently the whole time.

Since it's holding pressure once pumped up, I'm taking that to mean the master cylinder is doing it's job, correct? And it would then follow that there is now air in the system and it needs bled some more...
Oh... no visible leaks of fluid anywhere....
Thanks! I'll have a decent amount of time to work on it tomorrow....
 
Mike,
It sounds like you still have air in the system. These cars can be a pita to bleed sometimes and it takes time for that air bubble/bubbles to come out.
Rut
 
Mike -

When I have had trouble getting a good system bleed on my all drum B/E, I follow the advice I received on this Forum several years ago. Adjust the brake shoes on all four corners until the shoes are tight against the drums, i.e. wheel will not turn. Then bleed the brakes. When you have a solid pedal, go back and re-adjust the brakes for the typical scrape sound.
 
John Kuzman said:
Mike -

When I have had trouble getting a good system bleed on my all drum B/E, I follow the advice I received on this Forum several years ago. Adjust the brake shoes on all four corners until the shoes are tight against the drums, i.e. wheel will not turn. Then bleed the brakes. When you have a solid pedal, go back and re-adjust the brakes for the typical scrape sound.
Click to expand...

I will give that a try tomorrow.... thanks! By the way... should the front's be able to lock up with the adjuster alone, like the backs? Mine do not. There are only 3 or 4 positions on the front adjusters and even all the way out, they didn't contact the drums hard enough to keep me from turning the wheel. Although... now that I've tried to bleed them, maybe they will. I'll find out tomorrow...
Thanks!
 
Then something is adjusted wrong, assembled wrong, or you have wrong parts.
 
You should absolutely be able to lock the wheel with the adjusters. That is where you need to start. Also, I'm not certain but I believe the Sprite has 2 cylinders per front wheel, 1 for each shoe. You have to be sure that you have locked both shoes. Yes poorly adjusted brakes are much more likely to cause your exact problem than air in the system. Also, you are right, the master seems to be functioning as it should.
 
Bayless is correct. On a Bugeye with original front drum brakes, there are two wheel cylinders and two adjusting screws per front side. The adjusting screws are accessed through the inspection hole in the drum. They are roughly at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock (probably more like 10 and 4). I can get full wheel lock just by turning the front adjuster, but it is wise to adjust them in equal amounts so that both cylinders are sharing the load.
 
Ok... this is where I'll start. After installing the shoes, I worked with the adjusters. Unlike the back ones, which I turned several revolutions before they 'engaged' the drum and began offering resistance, the fronts only seemed to have three positions. Turning the adjuster screws resulted in three clicks or notches. With the drums off you can easily see the shoes moving out with each click. Again, in contrast to the rears where the turns barely created a noticeable movement in the shoe... When I turned the screws full out, they just barely contacted the drums and didn't create much resistance. I'll see what they are like now... that was right after installing the shoes and prior to bleeding...
 
Ok... so I lifted the car and there was alot of adjusting to be done to the fronts... and they really did seem to operate a little differently than when I messed with them after assembling the new brakes. I was easily able to lock up the drivers side. The passenger side I could get it to about 85% lock up, but i could still turn the hub with a lever of sorts made from a box end wrench. The pedal feels much improved so I'm going to give him a test drive and see how it feels on the road.... I'll update shortly....
 
Test drive revealed little to no improvement... still takes 2 to 4 pumps to get a pedal.... i do have brakes (maybe 50%) at the bottom of the travel. So.. back to another bleed this afternoon and we'll see if that helps.
 
Did another bleed. I'm not feeling any dropping of the pedal like before, but they still feel spongy.... but it's driveable. I'm thinking I'll try another set of bleeding in a few days, but perhaps this is just what they feel like. At least the pedal has more umf to it now....

I'm assuming that even with weak original drums on the front, I should still be able to lock up the wheels in a hard stop, correct? It was way to busy right now to try that on the highway....
 
mikeamondo said:
Did another bleed. I'm not feeling any dropping of the pedal like before, but they still feel spongy.... but it's driveable. I'm thinking I'll try another set of bleeding in a few days, but perhaps this is just what they feel like. At least the pedal has more umf to it now....

I'm assuming that even with weak original drums on the front, I should still be able to lock up the wheels in a hard stop, correct? It was way to busy right now to try that on the highway....
Click to expand...

It won't feel like a modern car but it should be hard. In terms of the brakes, yes you should be able to lock it up - but the front brakes should do more than half of the braking.
 
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