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New oils may be ruining our engines

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Jedi Knight
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If you have not heard about the problems with the composition of some oils, please read Bud Krueger's web site at Tech Talk web page and check out the "ZDDP" link.

I am concerned since I do use Castrol and have since new rebuild. The lack of this additive in the oil in my engine (now) may be wiping it out. Here is the specific article that has me worried.
ZDDP
I plan to find out today just what oil I should change to (TODAY) before I go on the Santa Cruz run tomorrow.
 
I just looked at what I am using eeeek! I guess I need to be really careful about this topic but for today I will change my oil. I am attaching a pic of the API doughnut of the oil that I use.

Quote from article:
"Now for the latest report:
#1 Castrol GTX 20W-50 is still good for our cars after break-in! 10W-40, 10W-30 and other grades are NOT good. Absolute NOT GOOD for any oil (Any Brand) that is marked “Energy Conserving” in the API “Donut” on the bottle, these oils are so low with ZDDP or other additives that they will destroy our cams. Virtually all “Diesel” rated oils are acceptable.
 

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Just got off the phone with Castrol consumer service and verified that their recommendation is

GTX 20W50 over .12 content of ZDDP.

I have GTX 10W30 in now (for the past 10,000 miles probably) and it is NOT ON THE RECOMMENDED LIST for flat tappet motors. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif

They are sending me an official whitepaper/statement on the subject.

Hummmmm I wonder how flat my cam is now??? perhaps a cam upgrade to a new grind over the winter…… /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Tracy
 
Thanks for sharing Tracy!
I'll see you tomorrow morning for the drive.
Let's have coffee. Premium, not reglar, not decafe, not 10-30, 10-40 or even 20-50!
Roger
 
Whew! Steady diet of Castrol GTX 20w/50 for the past twenty-nine (29) years /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The real beauty is when I've torn down the engine; zero sludge build up. You can literally clean out the crankcase with a few paper towels.
 
Interesting, thanks for posting that. Maybe the Castrol 10W-30 I have right now shouldn't be in there!
 
I just picked up a case of GTX 20w50 and will change tonight. I did use this for the first 3 years after rebuild so i think I am OK. About a year ago I switched to GTX 10w30 for some reason that eludes me but probably has something to do with availability. Anyway I will feel better getting the unapproved stuff out and the approved stuff in. Guess we will se more and more of this as the gaps between the new and the old technologies widen.
 
I had put 10W-30 in so it turned over easier in the cold, but the oil pressure was fine, even at 90 degrees. I did a quick search on BITOG and found similar discussion over ZDDP (or lack thereof), but it sounds like maybe things aren't in dire straits. I think I'll check my valve lash first and make sure there it didn't jump significantly. It sounds like the gist of it is that for newly rebuilt engines with flat tappets, then you need either plenty of moly-based assembly lube, or something with enough ZDDP. Mine is all original, so it's well past the break-in period. Still, interesting info, I didn't know about the lack of ZDDP causing problems.
 
Dear Mr. Drummond,

Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

As indicated on our product packaging, the current engine oil category API SM/ILSAC GF-4 is fully backwards compatible or 'back serviceable' and has been extensively tested. Valve train issues are not anticipated with the use of modern engine oil in older cars of OEM stock configuration. In fact, current SM/GF-4 engine oils are subjected to testing that is far more intensive than engine oils of previous API/ILSAC categories.

To clarify, in general, ZDDP levels have been reduced a small amount in the current category engine oils (API SM/ILSAC GF-4) in compliance with industry regulations that set maximum levels of Sulphur and Phosphorus, but are still at levels that provide ample engine protection.

Special procedures have always been recommended for the proper initial break-in of a new, matched, cam and lifter set; which include the use of a properly formulated cam break-in lubricant paste which typically contains a healthy dose of molybdenum. Engine oil alone is typically insufficient for break-in of a new cam and lifter set, particularly in a vintage engine type built to historic specifications.

In regards to concerns with camshaft failure, Camshaft failure can be attributed to numerous possible causes. Only a thorough analysis of each case can identify the root cause(s) of any failure.

In regards to issues related to flat tappet cams in OLDER performance engines typically known as MUSCLE CARS (NOT modern performance vehicles), we can recommend the following Castrol Products ...

* GTX 20W-50 (SL,SM)
* Castrol GTX Diesel 15W-40 (CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,CF,SL)
* Castrol GTX High Mileage 20W-50 (SL,SM)
* Castrol HD 30 (SL,SM)
* Castrol HD 40 (SL,SM)
* Castrol Syntec Blend Truck 15W-40 (CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,CF,SL)(Semi-synthetic)
* Castrol Tection Extra 15W-40 (CI4Plus, CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,SL)
* Castrol Hypuron S 15W-40 (CI4Plus,CH4,CG4,SL)(Semi-synthetic)


We trust this information addresses your concerns.

Thank you again for your interest in Castrol, The Technology Leader!

Castrol Consumer Relations
 
WOW,.......Tracy,

Maybe you should post this in the pub.
Not all the non-AH guys come here.

BTW...I PM'ed Michael Oritt.
He just messed up a brand new cam in his Elva.

Also....I forwarded the ZDDP article to AmsOil for their comment.
Will let you know when I get a reply.
 
[ QUOTE ]
BTW...I PM'ed Michael Oritt.
He just messed up a brand new cam in his Elva.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I did, though I don't think it was due to the oil--there were some interference marks on the undersides of the rocker arms and I believe that one or more jammed partially up bending PR's and damaging cam. In any case on the advice of the engine rebuilder I am running Rotella T on the first oil change since break-in and may continue to do so until I find out more about alternatives. Check out GM's oil additive--supposedly a good source for zinc and phosphorus.

Best--Michael
 
[ QUOTE ]

Yes I did, though I don't think it was due to the oil--there were some interference marks on the undersides of the rocker arms and I believe that one or more jammed partially up bending PR's and damaging cam. In any case on the advice of the engine rebuilder I am running Rotella T on the first oil change since break-in and may continue to do so until I find out more about alternatives.
Best--Michael

[/ QUOTE ]
You are almost certainly correct. Valve train binding would wipe out a cam in a hurry. A little curious about why it happened though. Sorry you are having problems.
D
 
You are almost certainly correct. Valve train binding would wipe out a cam in a hurry. A little curious about why it happened though. Sorry you are having problems.
D

[/ QUOTE ]

Failure analysi could probably be done--I have the roller rockers and shaft which is now replace by a conventional rocker set, and am presently using head and valves as mounjted when things went south. aNow all seems well and happy--maybe a slight bit of bite on acceleration missing but who knows, and VSCCA says they do not want to see anodized part under covers anyway, so I am to my comliant/supplicant stanse. BTW I ran for about 40 minutes at Shenandoah with Nat Scagliano, who you have told me is a fast Elva driver. We ran around for about 40 minutes and came to the conclusion that our cars are about dead even though mine is flatter and rotates more easily due to the smaller 500/15 tire versus his 550/14 setup. We had a blast.

Best--Michael
 
[ QUOTE ]

BTW I ran for about 40 minutes at Shenandoah with Nat Scagliano, who you have told me is a fast Elva driver.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow...That is fantastic!

After 10 years of Brit. victories in small bore, it was REALLY hard to watch what happened this year at the PVGP. (BeaveRun)

356 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif......LBCs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif
 
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