new engine rebuild, new type oil seal and LEAKS ??

[Murray]

I have a TR3A that just went through a complete rebuild with the new rear main oil seal. After 10 minutes, still on the lift, the oil comes out of the area of the rear main seal. The flywheel has oil on it. Tomorrow we are going to pull the transmission to try to isolate the leak.

Any ideas on how to fix the new style seal without removing the engine?

Thanks,

Murray

 

[Brosky]

I'm a TR6 guy, so I can't help. Stick around and Randall or one of the TR3 guys will guide you along.

 

[TR3driver]

Well, with luck, you didn't have the crank machined too small. There are some kits running around with a typo in the instructions.

There are some tips on other sources of leaks at
https://personal.linkline.com/koblinger/trsc/tech%20articles/mainseal.htm

 

[prb51]

I've read about the issue Randall points out. Can't believe that kind of printed mistake.
Is it the original scroll seal that leaks so regularly or the bearing block beneath with the felt packing?
I've the original scroll seal set up but the car passed thru a shop prior to my purchase and they sealed the felt packing area with a 'spray in' sealer.
In the photo you can see the 'stuff' has worked thru the mating surfaces of the bearing block. There is also felt packing used as I have seen the ends when the oil pan was off. None of the 'stuff' exited on the internal motor side.
I'm assuming that where the sealant exited you'd have had a major oil leak.
I have zero rear oil leaks in this area. I've put about 10k miles on since this was done (car purchase).

I have no idea what the sealant is or how it was applied but I'll phone the shop Monday and see if I can post the info.

https://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/prb51/DSC01193.jpg

 

[TR3driver]

Is it the original scroll seal that leaks so regularly or the bearing block beneath with the felt packing?

I believe it's the scroll seal; for several reasons :

1) Many rebuilders don't replace it at all, or don't set the clearances properly when installing a new one.

2) The dimensions shown in the book for the mandrel to set the clearances are apparently wrong. Reportedly the mandrel sold by some vendors is even worse wrong than the book.

3) Later TR4/A engines had "PCV" setups that were ineffective and allowed the buildup of crankcase pressure during WOT operation. The scroll seal is ineffective at holding back pressure.

4) The felt packing is still required even with the 'uprated' seal.

BTW, the tractor version of this engine actually did use a lip-type seal. Like similar seals of the day, it was relatively short-lived ... the scroll seal was an improvement!

Also BTW, I've always used Permatex #3 on the felt; and never seen any signs of oil leakage through it. Having a tiny bit or Permatex seep through the seam is an indication to me that there is enough inside; it won't hurt anything.

 

[martx-5]

Is it the original scroll seal that leaks so regularly or the bearing block beneath with the felt packing?

I believe it's the scroll seal; for several reasons :

2) The dimensions shown in the book for the mandrel to set the clearances are apparently wrong. Reportedly the mandrel sold by some vendors is even worse wrong than the book.

When I took my TR3 engine apart, there was almost no oil leakage from the scroll seal. I didn't take the two halves of the pieces off of the block and bearing cap, as I wanted to measure the diameter with the crank out. It measured a few thou less then the book measurement of 2.822". I borrowed a crank alignment tool from one of the guys in the club (it was from Moss), and it measured 2.825". I made my own at 2.818", and after about five hours of running, the engine shows no signs of leakage. I firmly believe that if the scroll seal is set to this measurement, there will be virtually no oil leakage from that area and a modern replacement lip seal is not necessary.

 

[Moseso]

I won't go into how bad the seal setting mandrel from Moss was. I only have three words: "Save your money."

Here's a method which, while fussy and long-winded, does work. After all the bearings were fit, I wrapped the crank journals with thin teflon tape -- the type used in your plumbing joints. One thickness is sufficient. Then I put the crank and bearings together in the block. The tape centers the crank in the bearings the same way the oil (hopefully) will when the motor is running. A few turns of tape around the crankshaft scroll will perform the same trick for centering the seal halves around it. After the seal is set on the block and bearing cap, take the whole thing apart and clean off all the tape.

That's what I did, and the original type "seal" is doing its job as well as any of 'em do...

 

[prb51]

https://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/prb51/DSC01193.jpg

The stuff you see 'expressed' from the lower crank bearing bridge is 'Ford clear silicone'.
Squirt some up into the felt packing channel, cut your felt and ram it up hard with a long punch (or worn out drill bit) until the silicone is forced out of the seams.
Coat each piece of felt and ram her home.
No leaks.

 

[CraigLandrum]

prb51 - OK, I gotta know - exactly WHAT is that thing mounted on your firewall above and to the right of your accelerator? If I had to take a wild guess I'd say it was a foot operated window washer pump. I was under the impression that all TR3 washer pumps had manual pumps mounted on the dash...

 

[prb51]

Craig,
It's a unique accessory only exported to the Colonies...a foot controlled whoopy cushion that operates on the passenger seat. I understand it didn't sell well in England, dry sense of humor and all but was very popular in the States.
The last PO put that in place and it is/was a foot operated windshield washer of unknown design. It is now gone although I still have the two chrome spray nozzles on the scuttle.

 

[Don Elliott]

PRB51 - I'm looking at your photo above. What is that item secured to the firewall above your gas pedal ?

 

[prb51]

Don,
See my reply to Craig on the other page.....he asked the same.

 

[Don Elliott]

Thank you for directing me to the earlier reply. Did you know that up to a certain point in the assembly of the TR3A, the factory supplied the chromed spray nozzles for the wind-screen even if the washer bottle and plunger were not purchased as an option.

 

[prb51]

Don,
No, I wasn't aware of that and that might explain the PO's attempt to fit a system. Thanks.
I recently recv'd my Heritage cert and no spray system was mentioned...the heater was original and it also came with a red hardtop to match the paint (long gone) and 'oh boy' factory supplied white wall tires!.

 

[TR3driver]

Did you know that up to a certain point in the assembly of the TR3A, the factory supplied the chromed spray nozzles for the wind-screen even if the washer bottle and plunger were not purchased as an option.

Y'know, I thought I remembered that, but TS13571L doesn't seem to have the holes. I'll have to look underneath and see if they were 'repaired'.

 

[rlandrum]

Thank you for directing me to the earlier reply. Did you know that up to a certain point in the assembly of the TR3A, the factory supplied the chromed spray nozzles for the wind-screen even if the washer bottle and plunger were not purchased as an option.

That explains the holes in our cowl. We assumed that since there were holes, our car had spray, even though there was no dash hole, and no holes in the fender or firewall where a bottle might have been mounted.