new engine - oil pressure blowing filter seal

[carpoor]

Final got my abandoned restoration / basket case BJ8 running yesterday. Engine was rebuilt with new cam, all new bearings and rings. Installed a new oil pump and the Moss spin-on oil filter adapter. Currently using the Fram PH3600 filter (Moss 235-880). Once started and revved past idle the filter blew the seal and sprayed oil out of the filter interface. Initially thought it was a bad filter so I bought another one (and a bunch more oil - and cat litter) only to have it repeat itself. I tucked the rubber seal back in place and tightened the filter way beyond normal and tried again - this time I watched the filter carefully as I started the engine - could actually see the filter move away from the adapter when revving - more than 1/16"! And the seal pops again. I do get oil pressure to the gauge although I cannot run it for more than a couple of seconds for reasons above - the pressure goes well above 40 for the short time I can run it - so I do know that oil is at least making it that far.
Question - if the oil pressure relief valve was stuck closed would this cause my problem? I slept on it last night and this morning removed the cap nut from the relief valve - just the spring came out. I tried starting it again to see if the oil would force out the valve - it did not - but it did pop the filter seal again.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Tom

 

[kkaa]

Tom, personally I wouldn't mess around too much with test fires until you are positive whats causing the gap. I would definitely replace the oil pressure relief valve and spring for a couple $, make sure you have the oil-filter adapter on correctly, not upside down, then you can re-test with the coil disconnected and turning over to insure pressure builds.

Also, if you have a new cam, follow your cam break in procedure EXACTLY. This usually means not firing and shutting down but firing and keeping idle above 2k for 20 min or you can wipe out a cam in minutes….With that said, did you replace the tappets and rods also? . Just a ton of cash invested, so no sense taking chances...

Im sure you have this covered, but recommend highly looking around here for info on adding zinc and engine breaking to your oil is a must if its that new. When you finish your break in, i ALWAYS change oil, even after just 30 miles or minutes. Why, all the new metals are flowing through your system as they seat and this is not friendly to have against your cyl walls or bearings. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that your first oil flush you will see sparkling fragments...

 

[rjc157]

I would check the oil pump and see if its primed and that oil is going through

 

[carpoor]

Thanks for the quick replies - I did find a web article on MGA engines stating that a valve stuck in the closed position would cause excessive high oil pressure. Definitely have the adapter installed correctly. Before firing I did crank the engine for enough time to get oil to the gauge line. And yes - new tappets were fitted as well. I have built about 6 LBC engines over the years as a hobbyist and have had good luck so far. This one is the first experience with high pressure. I did just order a new valve and spring as the cost just made sense to do so - now on to the task of getting the old one out - with the engine in the car.
I always change the oil after I have run it up to temp for about 20-30 minutes.
Will keep you posted on the outcome.

 

[kkaa]

Sounds like you've got it.... The plug should be easy enough to get to when in the car. Its under the oil filter, and under the large plug....

Heres a good thread on the subject...

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/showthread.php?45095-Oil-pressure-relief-valve

Kurt

Thanks for the quick replies - I did find a web article on MGA engines stating that a valve stuck in the closed position would cause excessive high oil pressure. Definitely have the adapter installed correctly. Before firing I did crank the engine for enough time to get oil to the gauge line. And yes - new tappets were fitted as well. I have built about 6 LBC engines over the years as a hobbyist and have had good luck so far. This one is the first experience with high pressure. I did just order a new valve and spring as the cost just made sense to do so - now on to the task of getting the old one out - with the engine in the car.
I always change the oil after I have run it up to temp for about 20-30 minutes.
Will keep you posted on the outcome.

 

[Keoke]

now on to the task of getting the old one out - with the engine in the car-
-What you might try is to find a small round powerful ceramic magnet to extract it. GoodLuck

 

[carpoor]

Update! I was able to get the relief valve out! It was really stuck - and my engine guy is a bit embarrassed that he missed it...
I removed the brake booster for better access and so I could really see what I was doing. I have not put any brake fluid in the car yet so that was easy. Sprayed brake cleaner in the hole, then vacuumed and tried a magnet - no luck. Then sprayed WD-40 in there and found a tap (1/4 NPT worked great) that could get hold of it. Tightened the tap about 1/3 of a turn and presto - she broke loose. Very dirty. Cleaned the hole with a gun bore wire brush - .45 caliber - and vacuumed it real well with the shop vac - was able to draw oil through the hole with the vacuum. The old valve did clean up OK but my new one and spring will be here tomorrow - will wait and install with all new stuff. Thanks for all the help!
Tom

 

[kkaa]

Nice, 45's and relief valves in the same sentence! HA!

Good news Tom, let us know how she does.

Update! I was able to get the relief valve out! It was really stuck - and my engine guy is a bit embarrassed that he missed it...
I removed the brake booster for better access and so I could really see what I was doing. I have not put any brake fluid in the car yet so that was easy. Sprayed brake cleaner in the hole, then vacuumed and tried a magnet - no luck. Then sprayed WD-40 in there and found a tap (1/4 NPT worked great) that could get hold of it. Tightened the tap about 1/3 of a turn and presto - she broke loose. Very dirty. Cleaned the hole with a gun bore wire brush - .45 caliber - and vacuumed it real well with the shop vac - was able to draw oil through the hole with the vacuum. The old valve did clean up OK but my new one and spring will be here tomorrow - will wait and install with all new stuff. Thanks for all the help!
Tom

 

[Randy Forbes]

Not the time to do it now I suppose, but for the sake of completeness (and future searches on the subject of high oil pressure and relief valves) I typically use just a spot of very fine valve grinding paste on the conical surface to "seat" the valve. You can jam a wooden dowel into the valve and give a few swirls until you can feel an even mating surface. Spray clean and give it a test with either Dykem or high-spot bluing paste to pass final inspection.

To a limited degree, you can also compensate for too low oil pressure by shimming the spring__but word to the wise, start thin and gradually increase (sticking a 1/4-20 nut under the spring and you'll be bursting spin-on oil filters...).

https://www.use-enco.com/1/1/2385-8...=&025=c&026=&gclid=CIXxpNK7tbwCFZPm7Aodkz0AKA

 

[kkaa]

Randy, you and Keoke kill me. Every time you post something i realize the experience behind it and question my own methods. Who the heck has ever heard of Dykem? (*#$*(#@$#)$:wink-new: HA!

Not the time to do it now I suppose, but for the sake of completeness (and future searches on the subject of high oil pressure and relief valves) I typically use just a spot of very fine valve grinding paste on the conical surface to "seat" the valve. You can jam a wooden dowel into the valve and give a few swirls until you can feel an even mating surface. Spray clean and give it a test with either Dykem or high-spot bluing paste to pass final inspection.

To a limited degree, you can also compensate for too low oil pressure by shimming the spring__but word to the wise, start thin and gradually increase (sticking a 1/4-20 nut under the spring and you'll be bursting spin-on oil filters...).

https://www.use-enco.com/1/1/2385-8...=&025=c&026=&gclid=CIXxpNK7tbwCFZPm7Aodkz0AKA

 

[BoyRacer]

In 30 years of racing my Healey I have had a few occasions where the oil pressure relief valve has gotten stuck. Every time it was because of a very small shard of metal that had got wedged in the bore and held the valve in place. Every time, in my experience, it held the valve in an open position so that it caused a low oil pressure situation.
The most memorable time it happened was in 2002 at Road America. It was the 50th anniversary of Austin Healey and it was the qualifying session for the "All Austin Healey race". The were almost 50 cars in that field. I got to the grid late, or else everyone else had gotten there early, and I was way back in the pack. I was screwed. There was no way I could get a fast clean lap and get a decent lap time. By the second lap my oil pressure had dropped and then it never went over 30 psi. Not good when you're revving your engine more then 6000 RPM. So I pulled off at turn 5 and headed back to the pits. Just before arriving at my pit, that also just happened to be close to the pre-grid entrance, my oil pressure popped up. I immediately headed back to the track. At first I was waved onto the track....and then stopped....a dead stop on the track....for about 5 minutes. It turned out there had been a very big incident at Canada Corner and the race had been red flagged. Then the cars came slowly up the track and were parked behind me, single file. When that qualifying race resumed, I set the fastest lap time. And later, in the All Healey Race, I started on the pole and won the race.
The other incidents I had with stuck relief valves were not so fortuitous.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Randy, you and Keoke kill me. Every time you post something i realize the experience behind it and question my own methods. Who the heck has ever heard of Dykem? (*#$*(#@$#)$:wink-new: HA!

Just proves that getting old is good for something, not a lot, but experience is high on the list!

In 30 years of racing my Healey I have had a few occasions where the oil pressure relief valve has gotten stuck. Every time it was because of a very small shard of metal that had got wedged in the bore and held the valve in place. Every time, in my experience, it held the valve in an open position so that it caused a low oil pressure situation.
The most memorable time it happened was in 2002 at Road America. It was the 50th anniversary of Austin Healey and it was the qualifying session for the "All Austin Healey race". The were almost 50 cars in that field. I got to the grid late, or else everyone else had gotten there early, and I was way back in the pack. I was screwed. There was no way I could get a fast clean lap and get a decent lap time. By the second lap my oil pressure had dropped and then it never went over 30 psi. Not good when you're revving your engine more then 6000 RPM. So I pulled off at turn 5 and headed back to the pits. Just before arriving at my pit, that also just happened to be close to the pre-grid entrance, my oil pressure popped up. I immediately headed back to the track. At first I was waved onto the track....and then stopped....a dead stop on the track....for about 5 minutes. It turned out there had been a very big incident at Canada Corner and the race had been red flagged. Then the cars came slowly up the track and were parked behind me, single file. When that qualifying race resumed, I set the fastest lap time. And later, in the All Healey Race, I started on the pole and won the race.
The other incidents I had with stuck relief valves were not so fortuitous.

That really is a great story! Unfortunate for the cars towed away from Canada Corner, but "that's racing!"

I had half-hoped I could put my car together for the 1990 Healey Challenge__wow, what a pipe-dream that was! I still don't think I could fund it, but you did, while working and travelling to most, if not all the events; I'd sure like to hear those stories sometime

 

[carpoor]

Got the new valve plunger and spring in the car last night. The new spring was about 3/16" longer than the original - probably due to tension set. Ran her for about 25 minutes at around 2000 rpm as recommended - pressure never dropped below 48 psi and the temp never got over 165. This was with the car in about 75 degree ambient and no forced air to simulate movement. Pretty happy - that and the oil filter held on tight!
The water passages were cleaned to excess during the build, and along with a new water pump I splurged on the Moss radiator and the Texas Cooler fan. This should do OK in the Florida heat.
Will fire her up again to temp and re-torque the head and check the valve clearances - then change the oil and filter.
Thanks again to all for your helpful advice.