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TR6 My smashed TR6....OR..Indemnity....fact or fiction

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bricktop

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We have discussed the concept of returning me and my squished TR6 to pre-crash condition and "making me whole" as a central tenet of the insurance industry. Well, here are todays revelations...the driver who rear-ended me is only carrying a 25k limit on her liability policy and that has to be spread between BOTH vehicles that were damaged, mine and the car she pushed us into. I had a consultation with an attorney this morning who made it pretty clear. Indemnity is a wonderful concept but reality is a mother. State farm is only on the hook for 25k. Shoot, regardless of what the "fair market value" number is....as I said, I don't want another TR6...I want to get this one reconstructed on a new frame/shell. I suspect that might cost 25k with all of the labor involved. Maybe much, much more. I am unschooled in this arena.

I am only carrying liability on the TR6 so my insurer,as great as they are, is not in the picture on my behalf.

As far as lawyers go, no one is interested in getting involved in the property damage piece. I even talked to an honest to goodness personal injury ambulance-chaser today. I might have to go that route simultaneously to close the gap between what I want and what they will be willing to offer for the totaled vehicle. This might get ugly and I might have to take a shower and scrub myself really hard after all this.
 
The fact of 25k liability limit on her liability does not reduce her liability. She is underinsured IMO. She is still liable for the entire amout of your damages (yours and your car).
 
We should all use this as a wakeup call to make sure we carry the insurance needed to replace our cars if this were to happen. States require insurance so drivers find what the State minimum is and thats what they buy, if at all. My truck was hit buy someone with $15000.00 coverage. Really they t-boned someone and they hit me. 2 cars totaled and mine with $8000.00 damage.My underinsured motorist took care of the truck. Collector car insurance is not all that expensive, and thats what I have with a stated value. Bricktop I hope all comes out well for you, but we need to know what we have. I'm glad you and your wife are OK and wish you the best of luck. I think I know someone that has a AZ shell in good condition. Let me know if I can help.
 
Even HER insurer agrees that she is underinsured; however....the LBC shop that does my repairs is going to work up a pre-collision fair market value for the car, which, even of they do me a solid, will probably be in the 16-17k range. That amount would cover what I bought the car for three years ago, but it would probably not be nearly enough to build a clone even if 60% of the wrecked car could be used on a new shell. My uneducated guess would be closer to 30k for that project, and that is the only thing that approaches "making me whole".

Even if I could get State Farm to agree to give me 25k for the car with the threat of litigation, anything beyond that would have to come from hiring a lawyer and going after her personally for the rest. That would be an ugly process and then the attorney takes a third off the top. Ugh.
 
Unless your state has some type of odd insurance where the causee's liability is limited to the maximum amount of their coverage, as stated, they are at risk for all costs.
The problem is, most insurance companies simply look at our cars as "old", and not worth much.

A little tip:

I carry a rider on ALL my cars, for fire, theft, malicious mischief, AND uninsured or underinsured motorists.

Saved my bacon more than once.
Cheap, too.

Most policies I have seen in our state have uninsured or underisnred coverage.

Might be something to look into you policy for.
Your carrier is certainly not going to fess up to it.

Also, in my state, if a Police Report was filed (mandatory if damage over a specific amount OR personal injury involved) we get a letter, oh, six months after the filing asking if the causee has paid all claims.
If not, they lose their driver's license until they pay.
 
This is why we should all have collectors insurance with full coverage on these cars. When I got hit, Hagerty was at the body shop in 48 hours and I have a full amount of damages check in five days, with an open claim in the event any hidden damage was found. Thank goodness there was none.

They repainted the ENTIRE car to insure a perfect match, gave me full price for all NEW BIMHT sheet metal and the adjuster called the shop every Mon & Thurs, plus stopped by to take pictures of the progress every week.

And the young lady from Hagerty who handled the claim at the main office called the shop every Friday for an update and I never knew it until the shop owner told me a month after I picked it up.

I said what if the car had been worse. His answer was you have $33,000 of "worse" before I run out of the ability to write.

One week after the car was completed and Hagerty had new photos, my agreed coverage was raised by another $3,000 by them at no extra charge.

All this for less than one half of my commercial carrier cost with a total value of $10,000. Good BYE!!

They went after the others and got ALL of the money back. I didn't have to fight anyone.
 
My problem with classic car insurance (and I do have it on two), is limited usage.
My LBC is a daily driver, and they would not cover it.
 
TOC said:
My LBC is a daily driver, and they would not cover it.
Click to expand...
In which case you should at least have comprehensive plus uninsured motorist.

When my daily driver TR3A got hit, Mercury found four similar cars that had sold recently, and would have paid me the average of the 4 with no argument. I could have contested that of course, by arguing that the cars they found were not equivalent to mine (but in fact they were reasonably close). But since the average was already more than the value I had stated, they just wrote me a check for the stated value (plus towing and storage charges).

Since I also got to keep the car and salvage things like the OD & Fidanza flywheel; I was reasonably happy with the result.

I have no idea how much they recovered from the other company. Not my worry, I didn't ask.

BTW, the body shop only estimated about $13k to straighten/repair the frame and replace the body with a used one.
 
I, too, have called the classic car insurers, Haggerty included, and they all agree: "We don't insure daily drivers."

That leaves me in the same boat as bricktop. Liability only. (I do have un/underinsured motorist coverage, but I have no idea how much good it would do me if it came to that. Anyway, it's cheap.) I don't even carry comprehensive and collision, as the main line insurers insure for "actual cash value," which means "the depreciated value of a 50-year-old car." It's a weird catch 22. I can demonstrate a real actual cash value, but I can't get them to insure it, even though I'm willing to pay a fair premium. They say, "We don't insure classic cars."

I, of course, have considered lying to the classic insurers, but where might that leave me after a tangle in the grocery store parking lot, or on the commute home on a Thursday evening?

It's a screwy system...

I am sorry to hear of your loss, bricktop. I wish I had something encouraging to add, but it doesn't look very good from what you've written. Be sure to check your policy for un/underinsured motorist coverage. It's fairly common and inexpensive. If you've got it, it's time to start talking to your insurer too. All that said, however, my understanding of the insurance racket is that they top-out at the demonstrable pre-collision market value of your car. If that is (for the sake of argument) $18,000, then that's the maximum you will get -- no matter how much it would take to fix that car. It is, in the lingo, "totaled."
 
Comprehensive.
That's what I have, zero deductible, plus liability.

My restored Ford and my street rod are now limited in driving, so they have old car insurance for stated value.

We are in a catch-22.

However, a loss has occurred, you can prove value, they are laible.
Take them to court (or at least threaten and see what happens).
 
Moseso said:
I, too, have called the classic car insurers, Haggerty included, and they all agree: "We don't insure daily drivers."
Click to expand...

For the very reason stated in the original posting in this unfortunate scenario. Daily drivers are exposed to a lot more potential accidents than an occasional driver.

Short of going after the woman in the courts, you will not get what you hoped to get. The real issue is you and your wife's health. You can buy another car, not another neck.

In Louisiana, almost one third of the folks on the road have no insurance what-so-ever. Even it being the law. We tend to over-insure ourselves here to protect from just those kinds of people, either the under-insured or the un-insured.

Sadly, lesson learned. Glad you and the spouse seem ok.
 
As I understand it, if the insurance rep knew that the person was under insured and they did not tell the insured, they are liable. Check this out. That is why they carry E&O insurance.

I am not an insurance agent but this is something I heard about from a friend.

Hope this helps, Pete
 
Bricktop,

I fully understand your desire to build another car. But what you want is probably in conflict with what the insurance companies mean by making whole. I also suspect the courts would also not agree with you.
I also doubt that litigation scares insurance companies. They have plenty of lawyers and more financial resources than you or I. My guess is the insurance company has a contract to pay up to $25K for the minivan drivers liability. That's all they have to pay.
As for the minivan driver. Even if you take her to court and win. Collecting the money is another story. The reason she had such low liability may be that she can't afford any more coverage. If that's the case it could take years to collect. She may only be required to pay a certain amount per month.

The bottom line for all of us is that we need to take it on ourselves to fully insure or over insure our cars. I believe that is the only way we stand a chance of recouping our losses.

BOBH
 
In Minnesota we are no fault state so if someone hits you, your insurance pays for your own damages. They then work out between themselves who pays who but if you don't have collision you are just out. You can always try and go to court but that almost never gets you anything other then a bill for the attorney.

I am afraid you may have to take what you end up agreeing to and maybe getting the car as well in the negotiation and then either buying something else or paying to fix it yourself.

The main thing is you and the wife are ok. Keep you eye on the big picture, the car can be replaced, you, the wife and the others can't.
 
Tom --
You have a common misunderstanding of most, including Minnesota's, no fault systems. Your company, regardless of fault, pays ONLY for your personal injury -- then they go chase the other insurer to be paid back, but that doesn't concern you. Property damage is NOT handled the same way. We still handle it the old way. If you get hit, you are dealing with the hitter's insurance for damage to your car.

69tr said:
As I understand it, if the insurance rep knew that the person was under insured and they did not tell the insured, they are liable.
Click to expand...
Every state has a "legal minimum" amount of liability insurance that a driver is required to carry. I don't think an insurance company can even offer a lesser amount for sale. If bricktop's rear-ender meets the legal minimum, nobody (besides the state insurance commission) bears any liability for the underinsurance. $25,000 seems AWFULLY low, but I know nothing of Virginia insurance practices. I know Minnesota requires more than that. Further, in California (the other state in which I've been insured) and Minnesota, the liability limits are expressed as figures like $25,000/$50,000, meaning $25,000 max. per damage claim - $50,000 sum total of all damage claims per incident. Bricktop's description of $25,000 being the maximum amount available, to cover him and the other car struck by that driver, is certainly underinsured in today's world. It wouldn't be possible to carry so little in Minnesota. One could have NO insurance -- though not legally -- but one could not have a policy with a $25,000/incident cap.
 
TR6BILL said:
Moseso said:
I, too, have called the classic car insurers, Haggerty included, and they all agree: "We don't insure daily drivers."
Click to expand...

For the very reason stated in the original posting in this unfortunate scenario. Daily drivers are exposed to a lot more potential accidents than an occasional driver.
Click to expand...
What I don't get is why NO ONE will insure me? I can demonstrate $18,000 in recent receipts -- not to mention the time I put into that car. Why can't I insure it for that AND drive it daily? I would happily pay as much as anyone else who owns an $18,000 new car to insure it. Well, maybe not "happily," but I'd do it... That insurance doesn't seem to be available anywhere. At least, I haven't found it yet -- and I've looked.
 
Moseso said:
What I don't get is why NO ONE will insure me?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing that Mercury doesn't offer insurance in your area, as I had no trouble getting insurance from them ... Have you tried AAA?
 
No... I've never tried AAA.
I'll look into that, thanks!
 
Thank you guys, I just learned something. Your are right about liability even in a no fault state. If the person is at fault their liability takes care of your damages up to their total amount or what the value of the car is worth. What the collision does is takes care of the under insured and because I guess in Minnesota most of the time both drivers have some fault your insurance company then picks up the difference. So if the other driver is 70% at fault then their insurance pays 70% of the damages and your company with the collision pays the rest to fix or pay off the car. They will never pay more then the value of the car.

I always thought no fault meant if I didn't have collision on a car that if I got in an accident then I was just out. If I am at fault then yes I am out but if the other person is at fault then they still have to pay to fix it. Also if you don't have collision your insurance company will not go to bat for you with the other insurance company to determine % of fault and try and collect. I guess it all comes down to a matter of fault.

I may still be all wrong on this but this is how I just understood it from my agent.
 
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