My commute home this evening

[tony barnhill]

Reason for asking is I linked you video to some of my P-car friends and while nobody's screeming foul - they'd like to know some more about the car.

They're both 6-cylinders & one's a POR-SCH-E! One's over 30 years old, one's new!

 

[Bret]

On a side note, this video was the #86 highest rated automobile video on You Tube today. I have no idea if that's good or what it means, but there ya go.

<snort!> LOL! I wonder if linking it in that P-car forum I hang out at has anything to do with that? hehehehe /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[Nunyas]

One's got triple weber side-draught carbs, and ~relatively~ narrow tires, when compared to ~most~ modern "Hi performance" vehicles.

The other's got enough electronics on board to fly an F-16, and enough rubber touching the ground to peal the tarmac up.

 

[vping]

One cost a ton of money one probably cost a lot. I can't wait to start gaining some horsepower in the '74 when I get it going & that sound! - How am I going to get that sound!

 

[Guest]

No offence, 'cos that's a nice sounding MG, it looks sporty from the vid and it sounds like you spend some money on it, but that's a new 911 - I thought it was an old one from the posts...

Let's inject a little realism here. Well driven it'll drive circles round your 69 MG.

Don't judge them by the 70's iterations - they've engineered all the snap oversteer out of the chassis and they corner like they are on rails.

That guy should have his keys taken away from him and not be allowed out in anything sportier than a Miata until he learns how to go round corners.

 

[DrEntropy]

All is not as it seems... money+Porsche, MGC-GT race prepped, with a conservative driver on public roads. Steve kept the speed on his side of the yellow line the entire time as did MrPorsche. I think "modern" and "antique" are well met. If on a track the same cars/drivers would have the MG goading the Porsche into the tire-wall.


...but that's just my opinion.

 

[GregW]

Let's inject a little realism here. Well driven it'll drive circles round your 69 MG.

I'm not so sure about that. Looking at the power/weight ratio, it seems the C is more powerful. Those small sized Porsches must have lead in the frame rails. 3220 lbs.

 

[GregW]

- How am I going to get that sound!

Add two cylinders?

 

[Steve]

I'm thinking that Doc is correct. The MG would not have the grunt to go around the Porsche on a straight, but with that driver you should have no trouble taking the inside line away from him in a corner.

And Alan is correct about the modern Porsches. Tight, predictable, good handling cars nowadays. Not saying that you won't stuff the car if you do something stupid but they are much more idiot-proof than they were.

 

[GregW]

The aluminum head shaves a ton of weight over the cast iron one.

My aluminum head is 51 lbs. lighter. I'd imagine you're getting about the same.

On a side note, this video was the #86 highest rated automobile video on You Tube today. I have no idea if that's good or what it means, but there ya go.

I think that's very respectable.

 

[Guest]

Let's inject a little realism here. Well driven it'll drive circles round your 69 MG.

I'm not so sure about that. Looking at the power/weight ratio, it seems the C is more powerful. Those small sized Porsches must have lead in the frame rails. 3220 lbs.

The 911 Carrera S has 355hp, does 0-60 in 4.6s and tops out at 182 mph. Look at the Porsche website if you doubt me, and remember Porsche are usually conservative on their specs. Road tests have had the 0-60 down as low as 4.4s. The 05 is down as weighing 3135lbs and an 04 Carrera S went round the Nurburgring in 8:02 (Walter Rohrl June 04)

Guys, I'm sorry but you are living on Fantasy Island if you think a 60s MG would beat one - unless the 911 was driven by a total muppet.

I love old cars, but they are just that - old...

 

[Steve]

In this case it was being driven by a muppet, and the MG was being driven well by someone who knew how to use the car properly.

All things being equal that Porsche should have been a distant speck on the horizon, but the biggest variable is always the driver.

Look at Stirling Moss, he drove some uncompetitive machinery in his time, but he still was able to win with it.

 

[Steve_S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Let's inject a little realism here. Well driven it'll drive circles round your 69 MG. [/QUOTE]
I never said the Porsche wasn't a faster car, I said it didn't make the guy a better driver. And neither car would ever be driven at racing speeds on that road, either!

You can see him pulling away on the longer straightaways but I was always able to reel him in. On smooth roads, his modern suspension loses most of its advantage. My tires are fairly sticky 225/50R15. They are more than enough for the weight of the car although I can easily break them loose coming out of turns. The LSD rear end keeps them tame.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]That guy should have his keys taken away from him and not be allowed out in anything sportier than a Miata until he learns how to go round corners.[/QUOTE]
The guy in the Porsche seemed like a decent driver, under control even when losing traction in hairpins. But he still couldn't lose me and my beast! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Put Phil Hill in my car and any of us in the Porsche and there isn't a road we could beat him through. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]How am I going to get that sound![/QUOTE]
Buy an MGC and put twin glass packs on it. The best sound you can get out of a B in my opinion is a 2" Peco HDR system. It's a great, classic sound.

 

[Steve_S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Look at Stirling Moss, he drove some uncompetitive machinery in his time, but he still was able to win with it. [/QUOTE]
One of my favorite races was at Laguna Seca when Sterling Moss led a pack of significantly bigger and faster cars for a good part of a lap while driving a Bugeye Sprite! It was amazing how he used the car's advantages against his opponents, even somehow beating them to turn one. He finally conceded the lead near the top of the corkscrew, as the car simply didn't have the power to hold them off up the steep hill.

 

[vping]

I was looking at the peco hdr system in the moss catalog.

 

[Steve_S]

On my GT I installed only the rear system, mated to the stock down pipe where it merges into one. The '65 will be a performance engine when it's finally done, so it will get the full system from the head back. The only thing bad about the HDR is the paint. If you buy one, do yourself a favor and strip all the paint off and repaint it yourself. Otherwise it will come off on its own.

 

[GregW]

The 911 Carrera S has 355hp, does 0-60 in 4.6s and tops out at 182 mph. Look at the Porsche website if you doubt me, and remember Porsche are usually conservative on their specs.

I actually went to the Porsche site to get the weight. I’d wager the 355 is crank HP (not rear wheel) ‘cause that’s marketing for you, bigger numbers sell more cars. The Carrera weighs about a thousand pounds more. I don’t know what the GTS does 0-60 but I can say that keeping up with Steve on my sportbike in the twisties isn’t an easy task. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif

 

[Steve_S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]On a side note, this video was the #86 highest rated automobile video on You Tube today.[/QUOTE]
Make that #74. Does that mean most watched or something?

 

[aeronca65t]

Don't judge them by the 70's iterations - they've engineered all the snap oversteer out of the chassis and they corner like they are on rails.

I read that all the time in car mags.
At the track, on our Time Trial days here's what I see:
They understeer like a fwd econobox at speed. Then, when all the speed has been scrubbed off, thay snap around. Even with good guys driving. It may be interesting, and maybe fun, but seems spooky to me. The front-engine Porsches are quite different and very likeable (especially the 924S), but I'd say the modern 911 (unless it's an absolute full-race car) is a well-developed version of a bad idea.
I would like to own a 911 just like I'd like to own a Harley-Davidson......more for iconic reasons than the actual dynamics of the car.

That guy should have his keys taken away from him and not be allowed out in anything sportier than a Miata until he learns how to go round corners.

Miatas are so much like Sprites were in the 60s. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/yesnod.gif

Lots of folks see them as "starting out" sports car that isn't really very good. In fact, these little "hairdresser cars" are much better than cars that are *supposed* to be better.
Just like Spridgets. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I've seen 8 to 10 Spec-Miatas on skinny spec-tires pass a 911 (and lots of other hi-end cars) in the The Boot at The Glen, the Summit Point Turn 1, The Left Hander at Lime Rock...you name it. Spec-Miatas are fairly stock cars and it is amazing to see how really <u>good</u> these cars are. Go to race and see them. Better yet, race with them....it's flabbergasting how fast they are in twisty sections. Naturally a 911 runs away from a Spec-Miata in the straights. So will a '69 Pontiac GTO.

My stock '00 M2 Miata on <u>street tires</u> turns a faster lap at Lime Rock than many well-driven race cars (it would murder my Spridget, most racing MGBs and similar cars). In the case of modified Miatas, it is quite possible to get 320 crank HP on street gas. And weight is easily trimmed to 2200 with a roll cage.
Of course it's always fun to "bench race" and say "What If?".
I love to do it.
To look at it another way, I am quite sure a Miata with $50,000 invested in it, would run away from a $50,000 911.
For me, MGBs, MGCs, Miatae, Sprites, etc are fun to drive.
I do not consider 911 fun to drive. Challenging maybe....sorta like my old StepVan.


EDIT--And neither a Miata nor a 911 makes as nice a sound as that MGC.

 

[jlaird]

Man, I was pulling for a pass. Would have come right out of my chair.