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Dudly

Dudly

Jedi Hopeful
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Hi All. A few weeks ago I was in an auto parts store, one of the national boys. Anyhow I swear I was browsing motor oil and found one that stated it was formulated to meet the needs of older, solid lifter engines. I read further that it had pre-ban zinc levels. Since I didn't have money on me that day I didn't buy any. the long short of it is that now I can't remember what store I saw it in. I have visited two each of the national stores over the last couple days and no dice. I can't even remember what brand it was now.

I'm starting to suspect that it was a dream.
Anyone heard of such?

Thanks
D
 
I'm using Valvoline VR1; comes in 20W50. Not sure of the level of zinc, but it is one that still has a decent amount.
 
I believe one of the Castrol Syntec oils has that kind of labeling. Definitely touts the ZDDP and older car formulation.

Randy
 
Sweet, thank you guys. Now I've got a purpose this weekend.
Nice link TR4.
 
billspit said:
Too bad its synthetic. I don't need an oil that will leak out even faster.
Click to expand...
I'm convinced that not all synthetics do that. I've run a bunch of old, tired engines on Valvoline full synthetic motor oil, and not one of them has leaked any worse than with conventional oil. In one case, the full synthetic actually reduced consumption noticeably!

OTOH, I did one oil change in the LBC support vehicle with Mobil 1; and it did start leaking noticeably worse. I promptly switched back. Just completed a 5000 mile trip in it, it lost about a quart the whole trip. Not bad for having some 225,000 miles on the clock and all original seals.
 
I am using the Valvoline VR1 also. Doesn't seem to be as pricey as the Castrol. Frankly I think they see us coming with the whole ZDDP thing, but what the heck.
 
If your talking about your 79 spit... why are you worried about ZDDP? Far as I know, you should have a catalytic converter.
 
Well anyway I found Brad Penn 20-50 race oil, AKA the green oil, (It really is green). So far, so good. Perhaps I am jumping the gun on the zinc issue, but I was told that the zinc provides protection for your cam that the more modern oils do not.
 
Guy I bought it from is a dirt track racer with a very serious looking race car. he changes his oil every two races, 10q! He swears by it. I'm not sure how valid the debate is re: zinc and the protective film it's allegedly forms on cam lobes, but I figure what the hey, can't hurt. Plus the price was about the same as other brands, but less than premium. I just did a search on "The Green Oil".
 
The most critical thing on the reduced zinc oils seams to be on flat tappet cams with high spring rates to deal with.If you build a trick motor with high to crazy high pressure on the valve seats,you MUST add zinc for proper cam break in and keep it up as a preventative.Most of the rest of us are wasting our money as far as we can tell,but who really knows ??For myself I will add a little,even if the machine shop guy says I am worrying for nothing since the seat pressures on my tr4 are 100/105psi.
MD(mad dog)
 
P1020112.jpg


Amsoil 5w30 is all I use. No ZDDP. I don't race this car and it came with a catalytic converter from the factory, which again, I assume your 79 did as well. I did a lot of research on the ZDDP additive and decided not to waste my money on it. Now, if I had a race car or an older car that didn't come with any emissions equipment then I would use it for sure.
 
Having a catalytic converter, or any other emissions equipment, has nothing to do with needing ZDDP. It is whether or not it is a solid lifter design engine. ZDDP was reduced to extend catalytic converter life on newer cars. We are talking about extending a typical catalytic converter from 100K miles to 150K miles. The catalytic converter on your Spitfire was only designed to last about 50K miles.

Yuo may need to do more research.

There have been documented cases of modern BMW and Porsche Engines failing due to lack of ZDDP. Evidently the Germans didn't get the memo about the near elimination of ZDDP from the modern SM Oil formulation requirements.
 
Seems to me this issue is a lot like others that produce polarized opinions, all of which offer various levels of authority. I've read both sides, and it's hard to know what to believe. One side claims absolutely that ZDDP is needed in the older engines. Another says it's "snake oil". Still another says it's mainly necessary for break-in oil, and in cases of severe duty. :confuse:

I use VR1 in the TR8 just in case, as the Rover V8 is known to be a bit rough on cams and lifters anyway.

Still using Castrol GTX 20W-50 in the MGB.
 
Being an engineer by profession, I always find this ZDDP topic very frustrating. It would be very easy, and well within the budget of a motor oil manufacturer / car parts manufacturer / independent lab to run experiments that would prove or disprove the claims that high levels of ZDDP are required in older flat tappet designs... but (not picking on anyone here) all I ever hear/read is anecdotal evidence and unsubstantiated claims...

I use to work for a guy that had a sign on his office door that said "Without data, you're just another opinion"...

Right now, all we seem to have is opinion.
 
jjw said:
It would be very easy, and well within the budget of a motor oil manufacturer / car parts manufacturer / independent lab to run experiments that would prove or disprove the claims that high levels of ZDDP are required in older flat tappet designs...
Click to expand...
Jim, I have to disagree with that. It is basically impossible to demonstrate that <span style="font-weight: bold">no </span>older engine needs or does not need more ZDDP under some possible set of conditions. There are just too many engines (all with their own cam profiles, lifter composition, valve train mass, etc) times too many operating conditions (race track, freeway driving, secondary road, urban stop-n-go, parade) times too long to test an individual condition (or profile).

It's like trying to prove that there are no white crows. No matter how many black crows you find, you cannot <span style="font-weight: bold">prove</span> there are no white ones until you've seen every single crow in the world.

And previous experience with lead-free gasoline seems to demonstrate pretty well that even if someone DID do all that testing, a vocal minority of the motoring public would not believe them. We seem to have some deep-seated need to believe that our cars MUST have magic juice to run.
 
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