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TR6 Moss TR6 Supercharger

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What's the latest on the Moss Supercharger for the TR6? Has anyone on the forum tried it yet. I don't hear much about it, or maybe I haven't been looking. Heard there were some issues with pressure leaks. Maybe these have been worked out. Would be a neat alternative to major engine mods if one wants more power. I understand that increased CR not a good thing with the supercharger. Not knocking Moss, they tend to be a leader in innovations for LBCs.
 
Current issue of Classic Motorsports has an article on it.
 
TR6BILL said:
I understand that increased CR not a good thing with the supercharger.
Click to expand...
Certainly not Moss's fault, just a simple matter of physics.

The article in CM is very impressive if perhaps a bit brief. One very good point the author made was that it wasn't simply "bolt-on"; it took some substantial tuning effort to get the real benefit of the blower. The engine they started with already had a mild performance cam, giving 10.3 seconds 0-60; and simply bolting on the blower only lowered that to 10.0 seconds. But with some tuning (and an overdrive pulley to raise boost to 7 psi), the final result was 6.3 seconds !

But for $4000 (plus however much all that dyno time cost); a small-block V8 still looks like more bang for the buck to me.
 
That's hardly a bolt on conversion.
Not really an apples to apples comparison...
 
alana said:
That's hardly a bolt on conversion.
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True. And simply bolting on the blower only netted a 0.3 second reduction in 0-60 times.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Not really an apples to apples comparison... [/QUOTE]True again. Not apples to apples, just performance to dollars.
 
IMO The CM article sounded like a plug for Moss. At the end of the article they listed various modifications, the increase in HP and 0-60 times as well as the cost.
Where in the world did they come up with the $7600 figure for a cam, some head work, CP increase and triple carbs, (roller rockers?)?
I don't think the total quoted in the article about Richard Good's TR6 added up to that much.
With the proper tuning the bang for the buck is pretty good. But they needed to explain more about the $7600 modifications that produced similar results.

The last CM article on TR6 performance was incomplete. They mentioned planning for a performance exhaust early in the article but never mentioned it again. I was left wondering if they did or did not install the exhaust.

Some of you may recall the CM article about the guy in Canada with the 2500M TVR. It uses the TR6 engine. He claimed to have a special factory head that produced 190 HP!

I enjoy their articles about TR6's but they are lacking in some areas. Plus some of their numbers cause me to question the validity.

BOBH
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Where in the world did they come up with the $7600 figure for a cam, some head work, CP increase and triple carbs, (roller rockers?)?[/QUOTE]

Probably from a mechanic on the East coast. That doesn't sound that far off if you shop out the work to me...
 
That $7600 wasn't just for the parts. It includes a whole rebuild with those parts and the end goal for those parts in mind from the get go. Including the labor to have a shop like Carl Heideman build the engine for you.

Transplanting a V8 in to a TR6 can easily outdistance the inline six in the dollars to performance category. Same can be said for the side screen TR's. However, doing so, so completely changes the character of the TR6 (as it would to a side screen TR). Making it no longer a TR6, IMHO.
 
TR3driver said:
... it took some substantial tuning effort to get the real benefit of the blower. The engine they started with already had a mild performance cam, giving 10.3 seconds 0-60; and simply bolting on the blower only lowered that to 10.0 seconds. But with some tuning (and an overdrive pulley to raise boost to 7 psi), the final result was 6.3 seconds !
Click to expand...

Randall, that's not what I read in the article. The base line was 10.3 seconds 0-60. Then they installed the S/C with the 5 psi pulley. And I quote..."After a little tuning, our zero-to-60 runs took just 7.4 seconds." No where is 10.0 seconds mentioned. Then they put on the smaller pulley and got 6.3 seconds. That's a big difference for a weekends worth of work. It's not cheap, but a lot of the cost has to do with the fueling they opted for, the multi-ribbed belt setup and all of the other pieces, never mind the cost of doing that intake manifold.

I put a Moss supercharger on my 1.6 Miata (it cost me $2300 on sale), and it truly gave a 40% increase in power for about eight hours work. It uses the same type of Eaton blower as the one offered here, except it's an M45 instead of a MP62. I went from about 94 HP at the rear wheels to 131 HP at 6 psi. Of course, engines with EFI and ECU controlled ignition are much easier to supercharge and turbo.

If you want some real power out of the TR6, someone needs to come up with a turbo system!
 
I tried to find a photo of a supercharger on a TR8 on the web but came up empty. Thought it would look cool in the center between the heads. PI of course!
 
martx-5 said:
If you want some real power out of the TR6, someone needs to come up with a turbo system!
Click to expand...

I know of two turbocharged TR6's. One in Southern California owned by Dick Taylor and one in Denver owned by Lee Jansen. The one in Denver is also sporting a home made, carbon-fiber, multi-port fuel injection system. I think they are both pushing about 200hp at the rear wheels.

Technically, turbochargers are just another form of superchargers. They use a different power feed to force feed air into the intake side of the engine but essentially still do the same thing. Higher boost numbers easier to achieve with turbos but with those higher boost numbers the complications also increase.
 
bobh said:
Where in the world did they come up with the $7600 figure for a cam, some head work, CP increase and triple carbs
Click to expand...
Obvious answer "Puerto Rico"
 
I guess I'll keep my $7,600.00 trips. Actually, that figure is not too far off.
 
Blowers and carburated systems are very finicky.
The Miata story above is an example, put a blower or turbo on a fuel injected vehicle that has fuel rails rated at 80 psi and no problem great improvement that can be managed.
Carb blowers, on the other hand, are infamous for burning pistons/valves due to overly lean conditions, change in fuel quality and numerous other issues that can't be controlled like a FI unit.
I had an aquaintance that rebuilt a Merceded 190sl (1958) motor (and car) at great expence and added a judson blower, he took it to Australia for a Mercedes rally/tour and checked/rechecked everything on the vehicle. The different fuel in Australia (not sure of the RON rating) leaned the mixture and he blew his engine (holed pistons).
So, many carb blowers lower the ratio for safety to the point that the increase in HP/Torque isn't worth the cash outlay. Raise it, as in the article, and you're gambling on many conditions hard to control without FI.
 
martx-5 said:
TR3driver said:
... it took some substantial tuning effort to get the real benefit of the blower. The engine they started with already had a mild performance cam, giving 10.3 seconds 0-60; and simply bolting on the blower only lowered that to 10.0 seconds. But with some tuning (and an overdrive pulley to raise boost to 7 psi), the final result was 6.3 seconds !
Click to expand...

Randall, that's not what I read in the article.
Click to expand...
 
I remembered reading that 10.0 comment and that it was rather disappointing for that kind of money.
 
I had the impression that Classic Motorsports magazine is somehow affiliated with Moss Motors. I have no hard evidence but they always seem to run articles highlighting Moss kits.
 
IMO, the only way to install a supercharger/turbo is to use them in conjunction with fuel injection. As stated before, you need to be spot on with the air/fuel mixture in order optimize the power for forced induction.. otherwise, just to be safe, you need to run the engine pig rich and with a retarded spark advance in order to prevent detonation.

With fuel injection, you have the ability to map the air/fuel requirements all the way through the rpm band and the computer will make adjustments as it goes.. with carbs you obviously don't have that flexibility.. so in many cases you have to overcompensate to be safe. On a blown V-8 street car we're talking gains of 50+ horsepower by dialing in the correct air/fuel and that's on pump gas.

Just remember: "The leaner, the meaner.. until it blows!!!"
 
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