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Mini...dumb question

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hey all,
I have had mixed emotions about the BMW Mini, especially when they comprised a third of all the Mini's entered in our local British Car Conclave, last year. Then I remembered how the BMW car came to be, in the first place. The german Dixi of the 1920s was an Austin 7, built under liscence. BMW bought out Dixi and applied their own name plate to it. This was the first development of all BMWs since. The Mini, for it's part, was the direct spiritual descendent of the original Austin 7, and in it's earliest incarnation was even named the Austin "Se7en."
Original Austin 7 owners are proud of the fact that the 7 figured prominently in the origin of the BMW, as well as the Jaguar, Lotus, Lola, McClaren, Datsun, and even the Jeep. Mini owners can take it as a matter of pride that BMW has not simply plundered a British tradition, but is rather paying homage to it's original British heritage. With that in mind, and if that much may be acknowledged by new Mini owners, I feel the new Mini ranks among us.
 
In answer to your opening question here steve.I was heard a comment that to me answer the question of is the mini a British ....

If you are any were in the world and order a English or Americian Breakfast eg. you still have what you asked for does it realy mater where it is made A English breakfast made in Germany is still an English breakfast not a German Breakfast and the mini is still a British car regardless where it is made
 
I was brought up on proper Minis and they still have not been rivalled.
As somebody else said the new Mini is form over substance and is the absolute opposite in spirit from the original. It is designed to part people from the maximum amount of money for the minimum risk. The original was a pure (ish) engineering concept designed to carry 4 and their luggage, cheaply and economically - an answer to the bubble car. As the man says it's other virtues were not intended but are a side effect of pure design.
The design values of the new one are all about cutesy looks, with a nod in the direction of driving pleasure.
The old one was a startling rewrite of all the design manuals, and has influenced virtually every European and many other cars since. It was packed with innovations, big and small. The new one is completely conventional and lacks any innovation whatever.
And yes, it does look cute, and it drives quite nicely. It's up with the pack of other cars of its type, but certainly no better.
CHAPTER 2
Pure engineering is great but BMC/BL lost money on every one they made. This was fairly typical. Incompetent, arrogant British management in the 60's, the short termism of British financial institutions, British loathing of British products (cf the French) and Mrs Thatcher's loathing of manufacturing were far bigger factors in killing the British industry than anything the Unions did.
CHAPTER 3
Is it British. Designed by a mixture of Brits and Germans (the MG Rover people say it was a UK design, BMW say it was German - they would, wouldn't they). Built in Britain under German ownership. Is an Opel German, is a BMW X5 American? It's not clear but my own view is that the new Mini is British
 
Guy, you appear to be rather hard to please. You ding the new MINI for having lots of options which can drive up the price, and yet you heap scorn on the classic Mini because it wasn't profitable.

You say the new MINI is not ground-breaking like the old ones. Well, neither were the Metros, Maxis, 1100s or any of the other cars that were supposed to take the Mini's place, and didn't. Ground-breaking doesn't come along very often, and originality is not the only criterion of a good design.

There are plenty of cars on the market today that were designed to move four people economically, like the original Mini. They do that job fantastically well, and if you want to drive a Civic Hybrid or a Prius, be my guest. The MINI was designed to be sporty. We don't get the econo version (MINI ONE) because BMW didn't think it would sell here.

The MINI was designed with an admittedly retro theme. Why is this so horrible? Personally I think the central speedo is ridiculously retro, but they did a good job with the exterior, keeping lots of original Mini cues and cuteness in a package which is salable today. Even at two feet longer than a classic, the MINI is still the smallest four-seater you can buy in the US. No, it's not the same car as it was 45 years ago, and it shouldn't be.
 
I think everyone's points are valid on some sort of level. The same argument may apply to new Beetle and the new Thunderbird. If BL or Austin were still producing cars today, the Mini would look the same more than likely.

The big argument for me is .. can you really call a German car "British".
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Good point, Gary. "Retro style" is a goldmine of conversation!

As for the new MINI being German, BMW says it was designed in Great Britain by a British team, and it's built in Oxford. So there's a lot of brit in there, even though the cash came from Germany.

I think it's interesting that the increasingly consolidated and multi-national nature of the auto industry is making these categories less meaningful.
 
I figure if its made in England it's made by Union labor and real English speaking people, therefore as pure British as you can get.

Owner: 1958 3.4 Jag Mark 1
1987 Range Rover
1996 Land Rover Discovery
2003 Cooper S (in May)
Larry
 
"Original Austin 7 owners are proud of the fact that the 7 figured prominently in the origin of the BMW, as well as the Jaguar, Lotus, Lola, McClaren, Datsun, and even the Jeep."

Can anyone expand on the above statement (posted earlier). I am particularily interested in any Jeep conection.

BTW - I am glad that the MINI will not be confused with a mini. This ensures that our classics will only increase in thier attention-getting appeal.
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> MarkB first said: "Original Austin 7 owners are proud of the fact that the 7 figured prominently in the origin of the BMW, as well as the Jaguar, Lotus, Lola, McClaren, Datsun, and even the Jeep."<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Huck6 asked: Can anyone expand on the above statement (posted earlier). I am particularily interested in any Jeep conection.<hr></blockquote>

On the Jeep connection...

- The Austin Seven was assembled in the United States as the American Austin starting in about 1930
- In 1935 under new ownership the name American Austin was changed over to the name Bantam
- Production of the Bantam ended in 1940/41
- In the meantime... in the late-1930's - when the United States was looking for design proposals for a "general purpose vehicle" for the US Army Quartermaster Crops - Bantam (yes the same company...) designed a 4x4 truck and won the design contest - Willys & Ford also submitted design proposals; but Bantam production facilities were too small to produce the quantities required, so most of the production was completed by Willys and Ford; and... the Willys truck as we all likely know became known the Willys Jeep [little known fact, many of the Jeeps used in the army, both in Canada and the States, were actually manufactured by Ford... but Willys is the well known brand name]

There's your answer, hope you can follow that...
 
Wow, thanks. My Jeep history started with Bantam, so it is nice to see that my two favorite cars are linked!
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