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Midget's Stuck Clutch Woes!!!

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GA72TR6

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I'm TRYING to purchase a nice, completely rust-free 78 Midget. My wife's only requests--after wrestling for two years with a hopeless TR6--are that I start it and drive it home. Doing so requires a new starter and replacing the clutch hydraulics. With the new starter, she fires up and purrs. The clutch is still a problem, though...

The current owner and I have replaced every hydraulic component and bled the system to get a nice firm pedal and about 1/4 of movement between the cylinder and the transmission housing. But, try to put her into gear and she grinds so bad you have to stop trying. So, it won't go into gear. For the record, it has been sitting for several months...

I'm assuming three possibilities. Either (1) the system is not fully bled (i.e., we need more than 1/4" of travel at the housing), (2) there is an adjustment we are failing to make on the post-hydraulic (i.e., mechanical) end of the clutch, or (3) the plate is stuck inside the tranny. FYI, assumption 3 sounds too hard to fix....please tell me it's 1 or 2!!!

In either case, does anyone have any recommendations about how to troubleshoot and fix this one so I can give her a new home? I appreciate any information as I'm at my wit’s end!
 
Congrats on your find. You do need more like 3/4" inch of travel at the slave cylinder for a clutch that works properly on the 1500. There aren't any adjustments to be made. Bleeding the thing is a pain, I'll admit that, because the tube makes an arch that goes higher than the master cylinder, and the air gets trapped there. One thing I did when I bled mine is to do it multiple times, because the air keeps migrating. The other thing which I have heard of but haven't tried is to put a piece of saran wrap between the master cylinder reservoir and cap (making an air tight seal), then stomp hard on the pedal several times. That's what worked for a friend of mine. I used a vacuum bleeder myself although it took more than once to get it right. Good luck!
 
If the car has been sitting for several months, the clutch disc may have frozen to the flywheel. It happened to my '78 once over the winter.

If I remember correctly, we started the car in gear and hit the brakes and gas at the same time. It freed it up.

Hope this helps
 
IF you get sufficient travel at the slave cylinder (as Sparkydave said) and the system still doesn't let you go into gear, the problem may indeed be the clutch is frozen to the flywheel as you feared. There are still other things to check though. Look for play in all the clevis pins on the cylinders, replace them as necessary (pay attention to the holes in the fork of the clutch master as well). Make sure the bleed nipple on the slave is oriented in such a manner that the nipple is "high" when bleeding the system to get all the trapped air out. If it still looks to be a frozen clutch, this is not necessarily the end of the deal.

To free a frozen clutch you need to get the car to a location where it can be 1) started in gear, and 2) driven in a straight line for several hundred feet. Put the car in second (or third) gear and crank the car until the engine fires (it helps to warm the engine in neutral first so it will start under load). Hold the clutch pedal TO THE FLOOR while you start the engine AND keep the clutch pedal down once the engine starts. The car will obviously begin to move if the clutch is frozen. Keep the clutch pedal to the floor, leave the car in gear and give it a lot of gas, preferably while going up hill if the location allows it. Snapping the throttle open and closed can help... eventually you should hear a big "pop" and the engine will rev freely. If 2nd gear doesn't do it, try third. What you're trying to do is use the torque of the engine to break free all the rust that's bound up the clutch components. Sadly, I have to use this method about once a year on my VW Rabbit (backup car). You aren't going to harm the car with this method... but you may feel like a jerk.
 
also one more thing. Bench bleed the master. use a piece of hose long enough to reach from the output side, back to the resivoir. then cycle the master until all bubbles are gone. when bleeding be absolutly sure the resivoir does not run dry.
good Luck!

mark

ps the tr will like the company
 
I just replaced my slave cylinder this weekend. Piece of cake. ~ $50 & < 1 hour.

If your clutch is frozen -- take the advice from above.

Geo Zeck
 
One other thing you might look at....

I had a '79 Midget back in the late '80's. The clutch was grabbing. Like you could push the pedal all the way to the floor and the gears would still grind or crunch when you tried to shift. We replaced the clutch, reworked all the hydraulics, and the problem persisted.

We found the problem. The arm in the bell housing that holds the throwout bearing (I think I'm using the right terms, it has been a few years) is moved by the slave cylinder on one side, and hinges on a pin on the other side. This pin is held into the bell housing by friction. On our Midget, this pin had worked its way out of the housing and the arm, allowing the arm to move on the pivot end. This meant that even when you mashed the clutch pedal to the floor, the clutch would not disengage.

Our solution? We yanked the engine/tranny out, yanked the pin out of the housing, took it to a machine shop, asked them to make a pin that was two inches longer and had holes drilled in each end for a cotter pin. We drove the new pin into the housing and arm, installed cotter pins on the top and bottom of the pin, reinstalled the engine/tranny, and the clutch worked like a dream.

Even if your clutch isn't giving you problems, it's worth checking out this pivot/pin from time to time.
 
I just fixed that same problem Andre discribed above. Rather than pull the engine, sometime you can fish out the pin and realing the Arm so that you can drop in a new bolt. But its hit and miss and sometimes you need luck. I would try that first before pulling the engine.

Frankly, its just poor engineering to not have a more solid head or other containment on the pin. Once we fixed this, my '79 1500 shifts very smoothly.
 
You guys have all been great help. Finishing bleeding the clutch for the extra travel necessary and unstuck from the flywheel after three rounds in the cul-de-sac. We're closing the deal and taking delivery this evening. Thanks for the assistance to get me back in the driver's seat!
 
good thread. I hopped in the car today (hadn't driven it for three days) and the clutch does not appear to be operating correctly. It goes into reverse with some grinding but clearly doesn't completely disengage. Forward gears were not engaging (I didn't feel like forcing it) Pedal feels very spongy too...time to look for a leak I guess....
 
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