Middie starts to strip down

[middie]

Had a free Saturday this weekend, so spent some time undoing bolts and moving down into the engine to see what it looks like. Never been inside here before and it is quite an experience.

I trawled the forum, and took notes on all the knowledgeable people and their advice, looked at all your replies to my posts - and finally took a real lot of notice of both JP and Rich. They are the gurus for me.

Even got myself a small box - cut holes in the top - and put all the pushrods in sequence so I can lock them away ready for when I start building up again.

Anyway . . . following are some pictures for you to see the state of the engine. Not too sure if this will clean up when I get the head pickled/boiled and the valves all cleaned up??? Only time will tell.

I posted this earlier, and it was suggested it was a loose bolt causing a leak

This is what I found when I looked into the piston sleeve.

This is the valve area

This is a shot of the top of the tappets. There are some marks on there so I'm assuming I'll be advised to replace them while I have the engine stripped

Also, one of the "bubble" ends off one of the pushrods was "left behind" when I removed the rod. No problem getting it out, but does this mean that the rest of the pushrods are suspect. I've put it all aside on the bench, and next I'll start exploring how to take a piston out. John Twist from University Motors has also been of immense help with his very easy to understand lessons on the Internet.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 12pt">A few months ago I couldn't even spell mekanick, now I are one</span>.</span></span>

Wazza

 

[mightymidget]

Looks about average at this point. Machine shop can make that metal look new. and resurface those gasket intersections

 

[Guest]

Not too sure if this will clean up when I get the head pickled/boiled and the valves all cleaned up??? Only time will tell.

What's the plan, entire rebuid?

 

[middie]

Hi Kellysguy - I intend to have the head and block cleaned up. Have a look at the main bearings, and probably replace a couple of burnt out valves (if they are as bad as they look). The camshaft will stay where it is unless other evidence says I should do some milling. Not too sure if this is an entire rebuild, but I can't think of what else I would need to do????

MightyMidget - glad to hear it just looks like average condition, I haven't seen a motor just opened up before and thought it looked terrible. Plus the fact that the burn mark on the manifold area lined up with the worst of the pistons, made me think evil thoughts. I can now leave it to the machine shop to clean up and see where I go from there.

What is the opinion of the forum on replacing tappets? There are a few marks on the surface, but don't appear to be too deep. If I need to replace, what do I go with - solid or with a hole for the oil?

Seeing I have to buy one pushrod, I guess I'll be buying a full set. Don't need to line up pushrods in that case because they are all the same anyway???

Warren

 

[JPSmit]

tappets and pushrods are cheap - because of the wear, you want to replace them as a set.

 

[tdskip]

Are you thinking about pumping the compression a bit or just getting the head decked (if necessary) to make sure it is flat?

 

[14dna]

Warren;
I'd take a close look at the cam, maybe even have it measured to be sure.
It is so much cheaper to put it in now as when it is back together.

JMHO

Dave

 

[SilentUnicorn]

Warren;
I'd take a close look at the cam, maybe even have it measured to be sure.
It is so much cheaper to put it in now as when it is back together.

JMHO

Dave

+1 on that. It is one of those "might as wells"- also the timing chain sprockets and tensioner.

m

 

[middie]

Thanks for the advice. I will have the camshaft checked, but hopefully it will be OK. I'm not looking for a "racing machine" just a reliable little car that me and the missus can buzz around in. I love the feel of wind in the face, hence the Moke, but SWMBO doesn't feel safe without any doors or windows.

I'll leave the compression alone unless there is a problem with pistons, in which case I'll probably just go for flat tops????? Head will just get a mild skim if it needs it.

I was going to replace the timing chain, but are the sprockets and tensioners a possible problem, making them a "nice to change"?

I've heard varying opinions on the tappets - some say the solid tappets are the best, while others say use the ones with a hole in the side to let the oil in. What is the considered opinion on this for a little Midget???

cheers
Wazza

 

[JPSmit]

Warren, just buy the tappets Moss sells - solid, it's all you need. In terms of timing chain, you can easily replace the chain/ tensioner and not worry about the gears. The big piece there is making sure you know where the marks are and how they line up BEFORE you pull it apart so you know how it goes back together. You will have to pull the gears anyway to get the camshaft out. Getting the timing cover back on is a PITA but, we'll talk you through when we get to that.

 

[jlaird]

My advise would be to change the timeing gears and chain along with tappets and push rods. A new oil pump as well please.

Of courese check bore, pistons, cam. Have all hot boiled and such. A complete refreshing is in order in my opinion. Not a hot up, just a clean up.

 

[hooey]

to me it looks like a bore job is needed I would just punch it out and put in new pistons ,and all new valves ,bore it line bore it, tank cleen it, resize the rods and replace cam bearings, new oil pump, timming chain,lifter,and all the bearings and gaskit and seals , you also need to check out the rocker shaft and rockers ,but that just me

 

[middie]

G'day Gentlemen - thought I'd give you an update on my motor. Listened to JP's advice and took it to get pickled/boiled. Few problems with scratches in the bore, and a bit of slop in the crank.
Bought new +20 pistons and rings, +010 Big end bearings, +020 Main bearings, new timing chain, new thrust washers. Getting put together right now and should bring it home later this week.
Mechanic said it was in reasonable condition, just tired. Could have been worse.
Wazza

 

[drooartz]

Looks like you made the right call this time. Once rebuilt you should have many good years of service.

 

[Gerard]

Had a free Saturday this weekend, so spent some time undoing bolts and moving down into the engine to see what it looks like. Never been inside here before and it is quite an experience.
Wazza

Wazza,

Fun stuff eh?

As a general rule, here's what comes to mind as a minimum of what you should consider doing for your rebuild.

Besides having the block and head tanked, you should check if that includes pulling the freeze plugs and oil gallery plugs. Not all shops pull the oil gallery plugs if you don't ask. They should be swabbed out as you can get a sludge build-up in them that won't come out without "encouragement".

I don't know if 1500 heads have any typical crack problems, but you should have at least the head checked before sinking money into it. At a minimum, have it pressure checked and have the guides checked and valves checked to see if they can be reused. I would expect you could give your shop the head and they will do whatever is necessary to recondition it.

Before you use those .020 over pistons, you should have the bore checked for roundness and taper. By the time you remove the ridge at the top of the bore and get them straight and round again, they could be too small. Your shop should be able to check and tell you what size pistons should be used.

Tappets can be reconditioned (surfaced and hardened) but compare labor cost to buying new. In my opinion, you should have tappets with drain holes. You could buy them from Moss, or save yourself $35 and buy them directly from APT (www.aptfast.com) David Anton is a great guy, knows his stuff and carries quality merchandise. You should definitely have the cam lobes checked and also check the cam for straightness. Cams can also be re-conditioned and the right shop can regrind it to give you better performance.

Have the rods reconditioned and have the block line bored. Consider having the rotational mass balanced as a unit, (from clutch to damper pulley). It's usually not too expensive and will do wonders to give you a smooth running engine. Make sure your damper pulley is still in good shape. Sometimes the rubber goes bad on them.

Don't skimp on things like new timing gears and a new oil pump. It's a false economy to skip those unless your engine is very low milage. They're usually not expensive and can save you additional labor later on.

If you will be ordering parts from the states... check out APT as a source, however, since you are in NSW, I would check out https://www.spriteparts.com.au/ Speak to Colin Dodds. Another very experienced guy in Spridgets.

 

[middie]

Thanks for the advice Gerard. I've followed that path exactly, and bought all my parts from Colin. He certainly is a guy who knows his stuff, and Sprite Parts is a great source of information and parts.

wazza

 

[Jimflorida]

Hey Gerard, Wazza, etc. I have a question for you: I have my 1275 engine in about the same shape as Wazza--engine on the bench, head off... I was planning on following the Ultimate Mini A-series rebuild DVD to work myself through a similar "freshening up". But there is also a shop nearby that has a good local reputation for these engines. If I decided to take the engine to him with similar instructions, "check this, check that", what do you think the shop charge would be, in a broad range? I have more than enough to do on my car, if I could perhaps farm some of it out, I could get to the tranny, body, etc. Jim

 

[Gerard]

Hey Gerard, Wazza, etc. ...

If I decided to take the engine to him with similar instructions, "check this, check that", what do you think the shop charge would be, in a broad range? Jim

I couldn't even venture a guess as I think regional costs can be vastly different. Being that I am in the San Francisco Bay Area, numbers I would give may have no bearing on reality where you live.

I usually budget around $500-$700 for the machine shop for the bottom end alone, but that includes a few things not everyone does in a standard rebuild. It really depends on exactly what you want done. The last engine I built, I bought a mildly ported head from APT and didn't even mess around with my machine shop for that. That was in the neighborhood of $1400. I'm not familiar with the DVD you mention, so I don't know what it entails.

 

[Gerard]

Thanks for the advice Gerard. I've followed that path exactly, and bought all my parts from Colin. He certainly is a guy who knows his stuff, and Sprite Parts is a great source of information and parts.

wazza

That's great... Good to know you already know Colin.

 

[middie]

G'day Jim - I agree with Gerard, it is impossible to give you a close price for my work. It looks like I'm going to owe the mechanic about $1500. That is for having the engine pickled/boiled, head checked and shaved, new +20 pistons and rings, +010 Big end bearings, +020 Main bearings, new timing chain, and new thrust washers.
The actual parts themselves were $700. But for this I am getting virtually a brand new motor, and I can install it in the car after I paint it, and shouldn't have to pull it out again for a long, long time
Wazza