Middie returns with a new Spridget

[middie]

You may remember me as the poor simple fool last year who was looking at trying to restore an old MkII with no motor, gearbox, driveshaft - but lots of rust.

I was eventually beaten into submission and sat sulking for some time before happening across a 1979 Californian Midget. it looked good in the pics, and because I couldn't afford a quick hop across the Pacific to look at it, I bought it and had it shipped to Oz.

I've managed to strip the body back to the bare essentials, and I'm now getting ready to lift the motor and gearbox out to have a bit of a look at what I'm in for.

Some questions if I may?

How the heck do you get to the bolts which will allow me to undo the exhaust pipe? I can't for the life of me reach them, and can't even find out how to take the Stromberg off (nothing seems to be holding it to the manifold, but it won't come off).

Is there a quick way to tell if the motor is seized or not. No electricals hooked up so I would have to "turn" the motor over manually.

I will have the motor and gearbox out and on the bench, so how far do I strip them down? I'm a mechanical dinosaur so don't want to bite off more than I can chew.

Let the good times - and skinned knuckles - roll

Wazza

 

[Bob Claffie]

If you roll the car in neutral and slip into gear it will either turn the motor over or stop dead. If it stops dead it is seized. On the exhaust pipe bolts, you will most likely end up cutting the pipe off and tackling the bolts out of the car. Why are you contemplating tearing the engine and transmission down before you have a clue of their condition ? Bob

 

[Guest]

Yeah, don't tear the motor down, fire 'er up! For exhast, I used a long extension and a socket from under the car. But try to start it first.

 

[JPSmit]

BTW from your picture, judging by the fact that I can't see it, it looks like you've already done the Right Hand Drive conversion - probably wouldn't hurt to move the gauges too.

welcome back!

 

[middie]

Thanks you for your quick replies gentlemen. I should give you a bit more background on the car to make some of my ideas a bit clearer.

The PO actually hurt his neck badly and couldn't finish the resto he had started. The different colours in the pic (taken in LA) are the bits that had been "worked on" and primed (the silver is still to be done).

He had the car in bits when I bought it, and you can't see the steering wheel because it is in a box in the trunk

No conversion even attempted yet, so the newly constructed dash and gauge holes aren't started yet (isn't that going to be fun).

The engine bay is a mess, so I am thinking of taking out the motor anyway to get the bay cleaned up and repainted (and the engine tarted up a bit).

Nice idea on rolling in neutral. No electronics or ignition setup at the moment will that make a difference, or will the motor try to turn over anyway??? Only thing I'm worried about is that the motor hasn't been used for over 12 months, would any rust or build-up in the cylinders cause any problems????

Any hints on why I look like an idiot looking at the Stromberg not knowing how to get it off the engine to make getting to the exhaust bolts easier????

cheers
Wazza

 

[JPSmit]

I seem to recall from my Stromberg (BTW the sooner you get an SU the happier you will be) that the nut on the right (front side) was the nuisance. I also recall that I had to whack it a few times with my dead blow hammer to get it to move. It may be something as simple as gasket sealer holding it in place.

 

[64rocksprite]

Agreed with kellysguy..I would really try to cobble the ignition together and try to start it before I pulled it. Even if you want to pull it later anyway. No better 'test stand' than when still mounted!
Might place a little marvel mystery oil (or equivalent) in the spark plug holes and letting that soak for a while before attempting to turn the engine over if it has sat for a while.. If you search around, there are threads here and on the web in general talking about re-starting engines that have sat for years.

Congrats on your purchase!

 

[middie]

Thank you for that welcome advice.

From reading in this forum going to a single HS4 SU seems to be the way to go (but is there a problem with twin HS2's)?

And that gasket sealer may even be the problem JSP. I can run my hand completely around the Stromberg and can't find anything at all attaching it - just haven't been game to try to lever it.

Great advice Rocksprite, shame I have already taken off every pipe and connection I can lay my hands on. Is it worth the time to reattach it all again??

What is the recommended "Marvel Mystery Oil". As a poor "Oz Colonial Boy" I've never heard of it.

Cheers
Wazza

 

[JPSmit]

Wazza, probably worth trying to start the engine. can't hurt. change the oil, fresh gas - I'd actually rig a gas can with hose to the inlet of the fuel pump.

I vaguely recall having to lever the carb somewhat to break the seal - there are only the two nuts that have to come off. If you don't have a deadblow hammer, you might want to use a piece of wood to avoid damaging the carb. On the other hand you might want to wait till you've decided to try to start it. You probably don't have to reattach everything - California is the only state that makes you keep the pollution stuff - mine came off years ago.

In terms of carb, twin HS2's are a great option - manifolds are pretty easy to get from England (not sure about OZ) The only problem is that you have to notch out the passenger (LHD) inner fender to make room. The difficulty for me was that I should have done this before I had the bodywork/pain done and wasn't prepared to do it after. A single HS4 is a great alternative (rear carb from an MGB is the easiest to adapt)

Not sure how much you plan to do but you may want to consider a 5 speed transmission before the car is repainted - Ford T9 is a good candidate (Merkur XR4Ti - likely more common there.)

RE Mystery Oil

https://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/

Re: Marvel Mystery Oil MMO

This is copied from another thread.

We analyzed and tested both of these additives at Exxon.

Marvel Mystery oil is 30% varsol (charcoal lighter fluid) and 70% 30wt base oil some red dye and wintergreen fragrance. It is from the late 1920s.

Avblend is very light weight paraffinic base oil (sewing machine oil)with 1% ether and blue dye. It is from the late 1950s. If it is absorbed by the metal, why doesn't it leak out of the can?

These are solvent type products. Some people find them beneficial for sticky valves or some sludge dispersal. If you are depending on them for either of these reasons, you have bigger problems.

Both evaporate within hours in an engine. Neither one provides any corrosion protection or anti-wear benefit. Neither one will harm anything in the recommended concentration.

Regards,

Ed

Edward Kollin
Techncal Director
Aircraft Specialties Lubricants
www.aslcamguard.com

 

[middie]

Fantastic JPS, thanks.

I took out the plugs, and tried putting it in second gear and rolling the car, and it went quite easily, with the fan and belts moving quite freely. That is a great sign
:banana:

In Australia you are supposed to keep all the "original" equipment on the engine. But I wonder which inspector would know what the pollution setup was for an LA car.

When you say "notch out the fender" does that mean getting some sort of FBH and putting a strategically placed dent in it???

Thanks for the info on the Mystery Oil - never heard of it here in Oz but I'll start looking around.

5-speed sounds great. The Merkur was released here as a Sierra, but wasn't a big seller but I'm sure I could track a gearbox down. Any great problems fitting to the 1500 engine???

thanks
Wazza

 

[JPSmit]

The mod for the carb is not a BFH job - I mean I suppose you could but it would look nasty - especially with your car. I've seen pictures online - of course I can't find them now - But, it is more of a triangular cut, using the piece cut out to reweld in place upside down do it is an inside corner not outside.

In terms of the transmission, it will require cutting

https://82.44.126.36:76/convert.htm

How much restoration will you be doing? Mine is a '76 converted to chrome bumper

 

[middie]

You must have been looking over my shoulder at the "wish list". I would like to convert my '79 to chrome bumpers the same as you have. I have the rear "split" chrome bumpers off the '70 model I can use, just have to source a front bumper.

Then a few problems to overcome with the "indents" on the bottom of the rear which are there for the rear rubber bumper, and the even bigger job for the front. I've even thought of cutting the bottom off the '70 rear panels and then welding them to the '79 model but that will depend on how much rust is in the "old" car.

I will be fixing up any rust I find in the '79 (even if it means new panels) and then giving it a nice respray but not too sure of colour yet.

There are wire wheels on the '70 model which I am considering swapping over in place of the rostyles. The SU carbies are a must, and the 5-speed is a "nice to have".

Naturally I will be converting LHD to RHD with all the problems associated with it. Then recovering the seats . . . . yikes, I hope I haven't "bitten off more than I can chew".

All depends on what I can source and complete (with my limited knowledge).

Wazza

 

[JPSmit]

Well, you're in the right place. There's nothing there you can't do.

If you are going to RHD - you may want to keep your eyes open for a UK partgs car cheap and just get all the linkages at once - we have a few UK members who might even be able to help. At the very least you will be chopping the same fender as you need to adapt for the steering.

Front adaptation for Chrome bumper is actually quite easy - can send you pics as the time comes.

In the meantime, one step at a time - let's see if you have a runner first.

 

[middie]

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hello Houston . . . we have a runner.</span> Even if only for a few seconds (but it eased my mind).

Had a look around for a pic of the "triangle" which will need to be cut out of the passenger (US) driver (Oz) footwell and came up with this website:- https://www.visn2.com/Flash%20Website/Carbs_for_1500.html

This is probably the best picture to show the mod.



Wazza

 

[JPSmit]

yup, that's it - glad to hear it is running, check the compression and you might be ready to proceed.

 

[middie]

Middie is back . . . sorry about my absence . . . but LIFE has a habit of interferring with playing with your Spridget.

The motor is out, the engine bay is stripped back and ready for primer and paint. I have a set of twin HS4 carbs ready to install, I have a nice header ready to go in, I've undone the clutch/gearbox ready to put in a new clutch kit.

But what is it about this car????? I looks like every bit on it has been stuck down with Super Glue. First of all it was the Stromberg which wouldn't come off (and still won't) and now it is the manifold that I can't remove.

I've undone every nut and bolt I can find, I've gently tapped with a rubber mallet, tried hitting up and down on various parts, and I'm getting so frustrated I'm about to try to drive a chisel between the manifold and the engine to lever it loose.

 

[jlaird]

Sounds like someone put some goop where they should not have. drive a putty knife in carefully.

 

[RichBall]

Did you get to the two interior studs for the intake/exhaust manifolds? They are buried down between the two and clamp the lower edges of the two intake runners and the center exhaust runner. They can be hard to see and even less fun to get at. You will need to get the carb out of the way to get to them.

 

[taskadog]

Middie,
You might look up Mark Boldry in Biggera Waters ouside Bisbane.
He is an MG guru and owner of GAN 101, the 1st Midget built!
He also owns an MG restoration buisness and knows his stuff
HTH Phil

 

[middie]

Thanks Rich, does this mean that there are still two bolts sitting there that I can't see. If there is, it is no wonder I can't get the manifold to move.

The problem is I can't move the carb, I can't even move the inlet manifold that the carb is attached to. And the best bit is, one of the bolts joining the inlet and outlet manifolds together broke off level to the manifold, and the "easy out" is having no luck whatsoever getting anything to move.

Is there any chance someone has a picture of where these bolts are???? I have the motor out and sitting on a table, so I can get a fair look at the whole setup, but my head is too big to fit between the motor and the manifold

I already have a set of twin HS4 SU's plus a nice header to fit, so I'm almost tempted to bust the whole thing off with a sledgehammer

This is really frustrating. I'll also have a go at contacting Mark thanks Phil.

Wazza