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MG history question

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PAUL161

PAUL161

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Was thier a break in the manufacturing of MGs after 1980? If so, for how long? Did British Leyland go out of business? What cars that Leyland made are still being manufactured today? Are the new MGs going to be built in left hand drive for export to the U.S.? Hope so! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif PJ
 
New MGs? Didn't Phoenix (MG/Rover) go into receivership earlier this year with discussion that the Chinese MIGHT buy what was left?

Others will have to fill in the timeline information.
 
Paul,

Some cars once made by BL are still being produced (last I heard) in India and I believe Iran. As for New MGs, well you must know of plans I don't.
 
They are talking about bringing MG back to the states, but everything is really up in the air right now. While as an MG owner I find it a neat prospect, I really don't care that much about the new MGs. This is not the same company that made our beloved cars decades ago. THere is nothing even remotely similar about the cars or the people making them except for the name which has been bought by various groups from various companies since the "real" M.G. Car Company went out of business in 1980.

I believe there was a short in manufacturing before the first buyers of the name started producing their vehicles with the famous MG badge on the front. Unfortunately most of the cas they produced were just crappy econoboxes with no real personality.
 
I believe Nanjing Auto (the new Chinese owners of MG/Rover ) are indeed planning to resume production at Longbridge as well as starting up production of ZR/ZS in China. A new TF and ZT models seem to be in the works for Longbridge as well as a possible new Midget.
This according to the October issue of CAR.
With a bit of luck they're right.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif
 
Two years after the last MGB rolled into the sunset in 1980, MG introduced the Metro. A dame ugly Austin-Rover design, but to be fair I guess – that was the style of the econoboxes of the 80's. Anyway the Metro came it two basic flavors – plane & the Turbo version. There was an “extra crispy” version called the Metro 6R4 – mid-engine with 4 wheel drive for rallying, but only a few hundred got made. While we never saw any of the Metros over on this side of the pond, we didn’t miss much. If you’ve ever seen a Ford Fiesta or a Dodge Omni of the same period, you have a pretty good idea what it looked like.

But for crummy car that in some circles wouldn't even rate a foot note - the MG Metro did pretty well for itself. In fact it saw well over 142,000 made from 1982 to 1990. Making it the fourth largest volume seller for MG Marque, behind the MGB @ 512,000, the Midget @ 224,000 and the MG 1100 & 1300s @ 143,000.

About the same era as the Metro there was also a couple other Austin-based vehicles re-badged as MGs called Maestro Hatchback & the Montego Sedan. Both vehicles sported the same grace & charm as the Metro – boring beyond belief.

Then something grand happened in 1992, however short lived. MG introduced the RV8. It was a wonderful idea if a little dated and only about 2000 was made. While the RV8 was based on the MGB most of the exterior was re-done. But unlike the old factory MGB GT V8s this one was in a Roadster and sported much nicer lines than the old Rubber Bumper B. It had a Rover 3.9L V8 under the bonnet bolted up to a “real” 5-speed gearbox. As cool as it was like the Metro it never made it to the USA. Production only lasted from 92 to 95.

In 1995 the mid-engine MGF Roadster was introduced. Kind’a cool in it’s own way, but never made into the USA either. A lot of folks attribute this to BMW who controlled the Rover Group at that time. I suspect that decision something had to do with another BMW product the Z3 already being shipped to the US at that time.

In 2002 – the MG TF came out. For the record this car had little to do with the original TF. But it was actually a redesign of the MGF with a little updating & refinement. Again it never made it to our shores but I’ve seen them here in Southern California with Mexican license plates.

After that you see some mundane sedans, wagons & hatchback. That – if you squint your eyes you can see the BMW design influences. Many of witch carried over when BMW sold Rover off and it became the MG-Rover.
 
I was unaware that the deal with the Chinese was completed. It's good to hear that this has happened and that some production will remain in the U.K.

As for the laments above about the newer cars not having anything in common with our old cars... I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Yes our cars are unique and have personality that is missing in the cookie cutter designs today. However, if you need a daily driver, I think it would be reasonable to say that the current models are at least marginally better in reliability than our cars (even when they were new).

The Metro, sold as an MG, is an example of a car being sold with a particular badge to strengthen its appeal. Yes, it was badged an MG, but it is really an extension of the Mini concept. Metros are common donors of engines and brake components to people modifying Minis. It's my understanding that one particular engine subframe (when it can be located) is an ideal transplant for those attempting a Honda engine transplant for their Minis.

May the Chinese have better luck keeping the MG name alive. I wish them well along with all their potential employees in the U.K.
 
What I've heard from a guy in our car club who is editor for MG Driver, is that Nanjing plans to relocate the engine plant and some of the car production to China, and still retain "some" production in Britain. It also plans to develop a research and development and technical facility in China.

Had SAIC won out, there would have been more jobs in England, because they had planned to 're'start substantial production.

MG Rover last produced a new model in 1998 and was down to something like 3% of the entire market. Sad isn't it? Scuttlebutt says the Nanjing deal was about $87 million.

I'd buy a 'new' MG if they exported them to the states.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I'd buy a 'new' MG if they exported them to the states.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I certainly wish the best for our beloved marque, I ain’t ready to commit to purchasing one sight unseen. I mean what if they make another minivan or some other humdrum everyday people mover?

But the minute they say that they are ship something like the RV8 over hear, I’ll cut’em a check right now.
 
I suppose I should have qualified that statement! I've never driven a minivan/peoplecarrier in my life, I've never driven anything with more than 2 doors in my life. I don't intend to start now.There was an RV8 at one of the car shows this summer and I would drive that in a heartbeat!
 
Well, its great to hear so much positive thinking about China's acquisition of beloved but failed Western assets. Just kidding of course, please note the sarcasm!
 
Personally, I don't care if Botswana Bicycle Corporation buys the marque as long as someone keeps it going! HOPEFULLY in the manner it was intended!
 
Don't get all defensive on me JB, you don’t need to explain yourself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I only meant to point out that should Morris Garage try to reinvent itself as so many in the automotive industry have been known to do - who knows what kind of people mover they might try to force feed their loyal followers.
 
I wasn't getting defensive at all! I was being my normal, sarcastic self! I agree with you 100%! And you are right, with vans/suvs being the hot items, even at $3 a gallon, I could see Nanjing jumping on that bandwagon. Hopefully not. A van with an MG crest on the front of it would make me sick!
 
From PJ. Thanks guys for all the info. on MG, Rover etc. I am truly thankful that no one is copying the old style MGs and other British made cars of the past. I think that is one of the reasons why we love them so much. Character, they sure do have character. So who cares if you have to fiddle with the SU's on a rainy day, or get the top up. We've all been wet before! PJ
 
Greetings to all from a 'modern' MG owners from the UK!

I was stumbling around the internet when I came across this forum and found this thread to be quite interesting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I've spent most of the last 4 years being quite involved with post 2000 MG's from an enthusiasts point of view and helped make some tremendous acheivements for which we are very proud.

The uptake of the support and enthusiasm has been second to none, which the MG 'Zeds' being very well received and acknowledged to be some of the best drivers cars you can buy in the UK, especially for the money...

Which is why it suprises me to see comments like 'the real MG company died in 1980'?

This is not a flame intedned towards anyone, but one of genuine suprise! The MG spirit is alive and kicking over here in the UK, with hoards of enthusiasts dedicated to the 'MG wave' as there has ever been.

The Metro, Maestro and Montego may not have been the highlight of the MG days, but these were far from the first 'saloons' MG had made. You can go back to the 60s and 70s with the MG 1100 and 1300 saloons, or even further back to the 40s and 50s with the post war Magnette 'Z' series of saloon cars.

The Metro was inrtoduced in 1980, yes - with the 1.3Turbo soon to follow. As mentioned above it shares many components with the Mini as the Metro was initially designed to replace it. Go-kart like handling is always a laugh, but like the MG Midget, it will never set land speed records. (Thats saved for other MGs!) Throughout the 80's we also had the Maestro and Montego's, again in NASP or Turbo form. With the exception of the post 2000 V8's, these 2.0 Turbo MG's were the fastest MG's ever produced and an MG Maestro Turbo currently holds the 1/4 mile record for a FWD road car in the UK.

The MG E-XE concept was produced in the late 80's, based on the 350bhp 4WD chasis developed by Williams Formula 1 team that is used in the Metro 6R4 - sadley it never mde production. The 6R4 though, is an absolutley crazy beast and purely a motorsport brute. It was banned from rallying in the late 80's along with the Ford RS200 and other 'group b' cars, because they were just too fast. The 6R4 was putting out similar performance to the cars from other manufacturers with its NASP V6, when others were resorting to Turbo and Super charging.

Along came the early 90's and production of the MG RV8 came to be, a project between Rover Group and the heritage shell producers for the MGB. Its essentially an MGB kit-car, but a very comfy one, with a lot of updates. Its problem was it was already 30years old a design when it went into production. Re-sale prices today hold very well, though.

After the Triple-M cars went out of production, the next MG lined up never received the MG badge, instead it got an updated version of the 2.0 Turbo engine, and badged as the Rover coupe, the MGF was launched in 1995 as the only model to wave the MG flag for the next few years under BMW ownership as they saw no potential in the brand.

The MGF was the top selling roadster vehicle in the UK, with good boot space and a comfortable ride and a decent roof!

Enter the new millenium, ownership goes back to MG and the current range is launched! Which consists of the ZR, ZS, ZT (and ZT-T, tourer) as saloons, the MG TF as a mid-engined 2-seater roadster and a carbon-fibre, V8 powered FIA spec race car known as the SV, a 2 seater coupe.

The TF was a re-styled version of the MGF, but received an updated range of engines, and swapped its hydrogas suspension for a spring setup, with required half of the chasis to be re-engineered. This has made the ride a little bumpier, but the improvements in handling are tremendous.

The ZR and TF have both been the top selling cars in their class in the UK for multiple years in sucession!

The MG ZS is used at many of the UK's race circuits as ideal cars to learn to go track racing in and as support vehicles.

The MG ZT and ZT-T are also used by the emergancy services in many regions. The ZT comes in 2 guises, the FWD platform with 1.8 and 1.8Turbo 4-pot engines and a 2.5V6 engine. The second guise is a 4.6 V8 RWD platform... a supercharged version of the ZT-T has applied to the Guinness World Records for the World's Fastest Estate car / Station Wagon record as it reached a top speed of 225.609 mph (360.9 km/h) at the August 2003, 55th annual Bonneville Speed Week Nationals, on the Salt Flats in Utah, USA

The MG ZS competes and wins with great sucess in both British and European Touring Car racing, too.

Meanwhile, the ZR is used and has won races in the JWRC championships and MG even ran their own rally scholarship scheme using these cars in both 1.4 and 1.8VVC form. There is an experiance rally company in the UK who'se entire business is selling rides in a collection of 200bhp+ ZR rally cars.

It may also suprise you to know, that very little has been done from a mechanical / structural point of view to get these results in racing as well, with only safety features like roll cages and plumbed in fire extinguishers being needed. Even the suspension is nigh on standard fitment.

The same engines as used in the ZR '160' and TF '160' is also used in the Lotus Elise in the UK as well as the full 4-pot engine range being used by companies like Caterham, who build licenced versions of the old Lotus 7.

The MG SV is a car of much contention, its a love or hate car, those that have them, love them... those who cant afford them, want one, many who can afford one, snub their noses at it and buy a Porsche instead.

It may have suprised some of you to know that MG have built an estate car from my wordings above, so to worsen the blow, they also provide a fleet of diesel powered cars and have commissioned a rare-ish car derived VAN from the ZR. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yes, these vehicles are a far cry from the superb classics produced some 30 years ago... but so is any car from any manufacturer. These cars are cheap to run, handle like they're on rails, come well equiped and are (in my opinion) great to look at.

Sadly, things are running low at the moment, many friends of mine from MG-Rover have lost their jobs. But the spirit continues, and hope of a British involvement from a company known a GB Sports Cars ltd, are looking set to partner with Nanjing Auto and retain production in the UK, alongside production in China for their home market. I beleive that Rover is the sought after brand for their home market, as they dont really know of MG. However, BMW still own the Rover name (and have been charging a hefty 'rent' for it too) so there are a great deal of unknowns.

I apologise for this being a somewhat large post, but being as passionate about the MG brand as I am (and this stemmed from my ownership of an MGB GT!) I thought i would shed some glimmer of hope accross the waters to show that life is far from over for the worlds most famous Octagon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
YAY! Thank YOU for that post MGZR! The MG passion is alive here in the states too, but most our information comes secondhand, you know?

Long life MG Rover.
 
First of all welcome to the Forum,

Thank you for the enlightening information on post MGB vehicles. I hope you didn’t take my comments the wrong way earlier – I merely was working with the info I have read about in books.

Sorry if it offends but I still think the MG Metro was an ugly car. But to its credit I think we all recognize that it kept the Marque alive in a really rough period.

As for the MGF & TF I always liked them too. Many an MG owner on this side of the pond would have loved to see them offered up to the believers over hear.

However other than what I’ve read about them – it’s a bit hard for us Americans to comment about the 2000 MGs. But I’m sure any one of them would sell well over here if they made it to our shores.

That said we have a few ex-Patriots in our forum as well as a number of members in the UK who chime in from time to time. So feel free to drop in any time to help keep us tuned in to the mind set of the more modern MGs.

Let’s keep our fingers crossed that MGs do make it to our shores again. It’s been a long time.
 
All this info on MG after 1979-1980 is really great, but one thing that I think is being overlooked is the Abingdon Factory and what role it played in MG's position as a sports car manufacturer, and also it's position within the various corporations that MG has been a part of over the years.

Since MG began producing cars in the early 1920's they were began as re-badged Morrises and Wolseleys that were given a more sporting body, suspension and/or powerplant. It wasn't until MG had their own "home", originally being small sheds in Oxford on Edmund Road or Bainton Road, that were finally afforded the chance to build and design their own specials. This is the reason many refer to "Old Number One" as the first MG. It wasn't the first car to wear an octogon, or to say MG on it, but it was the first car to be built and designed by Cecil Kimber and his crew. MG moved to the old Pavlova leather works at Abingdon-On-Thames in 1930, and this period from 1928-1930 was really MG's "glory days" as a builder of world class sports cars, like the F-type Magna, the K3 Magnette, and the J-Type Midget. This was also the time where MG would set land speed records in a special bodied K3 magnette at the hands of George Eyston. In 1935, however, the days of true autonomy for the MG Car Company came to an end when it was sold to Morris Motors. MG had always been the personal property of Sir William Morris, and hence free from the corporate reins that went with being part of Morris Motors. Abingdon, however continued to be the center of Morris Motor's and later, the Nuffield Group's competitions department. The sale of MG to Morris Motors marked a crucial point in MG's history - they no longer could produce cars designed and manufactured solely by the core team of dedicated MG employees - the designs now had come from the Morris drawing office at Cowley - and they had to be approved by the corporate hierarchy. This corporate structure is something that would come back to haunt MG repeatedly throughout its long history. When Morris and Austin merged to form the British Motor Corporation in the early 50's, MG found itself facing new challenges from within the corporation at the hands of Donald Healey. This internal "brand competition" is yet another example of the problems that plagued MG over the years. Austin-Healeys were, for the most part, produced at Abingdon alongside MG's, and for a while, there seemed to room within BMC for two sports car brands to get along with each other. That is, until British Leyland came along in 1968. It was clear from the beginning that the merger of BMH (BMC became british motor holdings after a merger with Jaguar) and Leyland Motor Corporation was not so much a merger, but a takeover. (DaimlerChrysler, anyone?) It was this shift in management power from the old "austin and Morris Guys" to the Rover and Triumph folks that truly led to the disintegration of MG's prominence. The MGB, while always a strong seller, was left to whither on the vine when every idea for a new Abingdon Sports Car was shot down by BL management in favor of the TR7, built at the Rover factory in Solihull. A great example of this is the early 70's project ADO21, an advanced, mid-engine MG design which would utilize the new 2-Liter O-Series engine with Fuel Injection, which would provde ample performace with the clean emissions and fuel economy that was so important in those days. This project was inexplicably shot down in favor of the eerily similar, but uglier Triumph TR7 in 1975. It was announced in 1979 that the Abingdon Factory would close, and MGB production would cease after the 1980 model year. This announcement was made with no reference to any contingency plan to move MG production elsewhere. To me, this marked the true end of a "pure" MG. The BL management, (who drove the company into bankruptcy twice, and had to be rescued by the british gov't both times) eventually decided to stick MG badges on the Austin MEtro for 1981. This same recurring theme of MG being overlooked by the corporation began again in 1994, under BMW ownership. The MGF, when independant studies have shown that it could easily pass US emissions and crash legislation with few modifications, was never considered for sale in the USA, because BMW did not want it competing with their own sports car, the Z3.

I guess you could call me a purist, but it takes a little more than an octogon badge stuck on an Austin or a Rover to make a true MG. True MG's were always designed by passionate men and women who were proud to be working for one of the greatest sporting marques in history, and this sens of pride was always reflected in their products. I wouldn't believe you if you get behind the wheel of an MG TC, MGA, or MGB and couldn't see that right away. Until MG's designed by a group of people that fit the above description, not some corporate design board that waters down the product (especially a Chinese one), come onto showroom floors, I will keep driving my MGB until it freakin explodes.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I will keep driving my MGB until it freakin explodes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Amen. I couldn't have said it better!
 
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