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TR2/3/3A Major TR3 modification in progress
- Thread starter TR3Mod
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Hey Tom
That's correct- 4 inches up the middle of the body shell, 1 inch on either edge of the apron and two inches up the middle of the apron. 4 inches up the middle of the hood, and the same for the trunk lid. At this point, all I've done if the body shell itself. The match at the hood to apron line will be based on the hood.
TR3MOD
That's correct- 4 inches up the middle of the body shell, 1 inch on either edge of the apron and two inches up the middle of the apron. 4 inches up the middle of the hood, and the same for the trunk lid. At this point, all I've done if the body shell itself. The match at the hood to apron line will be based on the hood.
TR3MOD
This is so far out that I am intregued, my one suggestion is modern panel bonding adhesives could be used to make the sectioning go faster and with better results. Also if you dont have a good mig welder, you will have a disaster on your hands !!You should stop now and get one!!
MD(mad dog)
MD(mad dog)
MD
I very much do NOT agree with your suggestion for use of MIG welding. That would be the last option. steel body fabricators would only consider GAS or TIG as options. Of the two TIG would produce less heat, but leaves the weld harder than the parent metal around it, which makes it more difficult to work the new panel after welding. I am GAS welding everything in the traditional methods of bodywork. Every seam is fitted to within 1/16" as a butt. The panals are than tacked every couple of inches and hammer and dollied while red. The hamering shrinks the weld and keeps things as they were aligned. I then weld only aboit an inch at a time, continuing with the hamer welding process. A little here, a little there and things work out fine. I'm using a 000 welding tip. Pressures at the regulators are 4 pounds each, and I do not use any filler rod. The majot problem with MIG is that way too much metal is deposited, and it is not possible to flatten it out, resulting in grinding, warpage etc... Using the methods I've described I do a little pick and file work and the job's done. I accept no more than a 1/16" of body filler on top of my work. So, that's my long response to yours. Folks- I would really NOT recommend MIG as a process for this kind of work. Don't get me wrong, what I do is not easy and takes some time to learn, but it is one of two correct ways to do this sort of work. As for the idea of modern panel adhesives, they work very well where an over-lap situation occurs. For instance a patch panel for the lower section of a TR3 front fender would be ideal. I've done this in another situation. I create about a 1/2" 'step' along the edge of one piece, offset enough that the other piece will lie flush into the step. The panel adhesive is applied, and when set, the bond is amazing! None of this is possible with this project however, as everything is a butt joint.
TR3MOD
I very much do NOT agree with your suggestion for use of MIG welding. That would be the last option. steel body fabricators would only consider GAS or TIG as options. Of the two TIG would produce less heat, but leaves the weld harder than the parent metal around it, which makes it more difficult to work the new panel after welding. I am GAS welding everything in the traditional methods of bodywork. Every seam is fitted to within 1/16" as a butt. The panals are than tacked every couple of inches and hammer and dollied while red. The hamering shrinks the weld and keeps things as they were aligned. I then weld only aboit an inch at a time, continuing with the hamer welding process. A little here, a little there and things work out fine. I'm using a 000 welding tip. Pressures at the regulators are 4 pounds each, and I do not use any filler rod. The majot problem with MIG is that way too much metal is deposited, and it is not possible to flatten it out, resulting in grinding, warpage etc... Using the methods I've described I do a little pick and file work and the job's done. I accept no more than a 1/16" of body filler on top of my work. So, that's my long response to yours. Folks- I would really NOT recommend MIG as a process for this kind of work. Don't get me wrong, what I do is not easy and takes some time to learn, but it is one of two correct ways to do this sort of work. As for the idea of modern panel adhesives, they work very well where an over-lap situation occurs. For instance a patch panel for the lower section of a TR3 front fender would be ideal. I've done this in another situation. I create about a 1/2" 'step' along the edge of one piece, offset enough that the other piece will lie flush into the step. The panel adhesive is applied, and when set, the bond is amazing! None of this is possible with this project however, as everything is a butt joint.
TR3MOD
G
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TR3MOD, you gotta post some pictures. You have our mouths watering over your project. Sounds like you have an eye for that type of thing (improving an existing classic) and should be a truly unique work when you are done. I use photobucket.com to post pics. Easy and free.
Bill
Bill
TR3MOD, it's nice to see that there are still a few of us left that will take the time to learn and practice the art of metalworking. I, too, prefer to gas weld and metal finish rather than use filler material. My dad was a master at this, and I picked it up years ago from him.
Back around 1996, I built a show pickup for GM. The cab was widened 5 inches, by sectioning right down the center, and lengthened by 3 1/2 inches. That was a challenge, given the thinner materials used in todays vehicles.
I'd love to see some pictures of your project.
Jeff
Back around 1996, I built a show pickup for GM. The cab was widened 5 inches, by sectioning right down the center, and lengthened by 3 1/2 inches. That was a challenge, given the thinner materials used in todays vehicles.
I'd love to see some pictures of your project.
Jeff
TR3MOD, Are you by chance using the Dillon mark IV torch, for your gas welding. When you mentioned using 4 pounds for both regulators, this is what caused me to think of the Dillon. For those of you that are not familiar with the dillon torch, it is a small pistol looking torch, with a small flame that does not need any flux on your filler rod, because of the sheilding design of the flame. It also does not cause heat build up as a conventional torch would, and requires only 4 pounds of oxy and gas to operate.
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Just curious, you are obviously going to a lot of trouble to get it 'right'. That given, why use filler at all - why not lead? Environmental issues?
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I was actually responding to the comment
"I accept no more than a 1/16" of body filler on top of my work".
I just wondered why not lead if you are going to all that trouble is all.
"I accept no more than a 1/16" of body filler on top of my work".
I just wondered why not lead if you are going to all that trouble is all.
I'm trying to get some pictures out guys, but I'm still working on getting them out of my new digital camera and into my computer... welding is easier than this!
As for filler. I have pretty good faith in the new polyester fillers aka "Bondo". I Think the quality of work comes from how it's applied. What I do is work the panel to where I'm satisfied with the shape and then run a course 36 grit grinding disc over the area. I've already got the filler mixed and ready to apply at this point. I apply the filler when the area is still warm from the grinding, and as pure from oxidation as it be, I work the filler across the area in several directions with the spreader to make sure I've pulled it into the 'tooth' of the ground metal. I do use lead, but sparingly. You're right there are environmental issues with lead. I really like it in areas where a corner is exposed and wear is likely. An example of this is along the opening edge of the door, both the door itself and the piller on the body shell. I've found some factory leading along this piller when I blasted the shell. It does make a really nice job.
As for welding torches, no I'm not using that torch. I think I know the kind you mean and they are supposed to be really good. I've never used one though. My set is an old Victor type, Again, it's a 000 tip and 4 pounds on both regulators. What's this about not having to use flux? How would one use flux while gas welding??
TR3MOD
As for filler. I have pretty good faith in the new polyester fillers aka "Bondo". I Think the quality of work comes from how it's applied. What I do is work the panel to where I'm satisfied with the shape and then run a course 36 grit grinding disc over the area. I've already got the filler mixed and ready to apply at this point. I apply the filler when the area is still warm from the grinding, and as pure from oxidation as it be, I work the filler across the area in several directions with the spreader to make sure I've pulled it into the 'tooth' of the ground metal. I do use lead, but sparingly. You're right there are environmental issues with lead. I really like it in areas where a corner is exposed and wear is likely. An example of this is along the opening edge of the door, both the door itself and the piller on the body shell. I've found some factory leading along this piller when I blasted the shell. It does make a really nice job.
As for welding torches, no I'm not using that torch. I think I know the kind you mean and they are supposed to be really good. I've never used one though. My set is an old Victor type, Again, it's a 000 tip and 4 pounds on both regulators. What's this about not having to use flux? How would one use flux while gas welding??
TR3MOD
Nothing- the process is completely open to atmosphere. It's as simple as that. Nuetral Oxy/Acetelene flame, slightly carborizing, heat metal until it melts, add filler rod if required. The rod is just plain old mild steel, just like the metal. I use 1/16" diameter rod, if I need to. I once welded a farming bailer back together with an old metal coat hanger, as that was all that was around the farm! This is the most basic fusion welding process there is.
aeronca65t
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The left rear fender on #11 (below) was gas-welded on using coat hangers as filler rod. (Hey....it was Sunday, I was in a hurry and nothing was open).
No flux either....just everything real clean.
The steel tubes in ~My Airplane~ frame are fully gas-welded together in the traditional oxy-acetylene method. Has worked well for the last 60+ years. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
But I'll admit...if I won a few bucks on the lottery, one of the first things I'd buy is a TIG setup.
No flux either....just everything real clean.
The steel tubes in ~My Airplane~ frame are fully gas-welded together in the traditional oxy-acetylene method. Has worked well for the last 60+ years. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
But I'll admit...if I won a few bucks on the lottery, one of the first things I'd buy is a TIG setup.