Lubricating the front suspension

[Member 10617]

There are probably a number of postings on this topic, but without the means of searching past postings for this topic, I'll ask here.

I've reached 1500 miles and am ready to lubricate the front suspension and steering. The problem is: where are the grease nipples and how many of them are there?

The Triumph manual mentions four, but only shows three; Haynes mentions five, but only shows three; Ball mentions four but only shows three. On the actual car, there are other grease nipples in the area that apparently have nothing to do with either suspension or steering.

Can someone post a photo of the front suspension with the grease nipples indicated on the front suspension and the steering (an arrow or an "x" marks the spot)?

I admit this is REALLY basic stuff, but that's where I'm at. As always, your assistance is GREATLY appreciated, as it is either do it myself or drive miles and miles to a mechanic.

 

[TR3driver]

Remember what I was saying about "Practical Hints" ? Guess where this diagram is from

Note that there are actually two zerks shown as "B", for 4 total per side.

Also, this is just the "suspension"; there are also five zerks total for the steering (one on each tie rod end, plus one on the idler arm/bracket). Then there are several more on the emergency brake, one for each rear wheel bearing, etc.

Oh, one other point, modern grease is much better than what they had in the 50's. I feel safe in extending the chassis lube interval to 1 year/10,000 miles and I've never seen any ill effects in doing so in nearly 200,000 miles of TR ownership.

 

[TR3driver]

PS, don't forget the three zerks on the driveshaft; or the drop of oil for the generator, distributor, door locks, etc, etc. It's pretty much all in the book, complete with diagrams. (Although not, I'm afraid, 27 8x10 color glossy photographs, with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, explaining what each one was, to be used as evidence against us )

 

[HerronScott]

Can't remember the last time that I heard that on the radio! Used to hear it every Thanksgiving when I was growing up.

 

[startech47]

A bit of blind justice?

 

[Member 10617]

TR3Driver:

As usual, you have come to the rescue. Many thanks to you in sunny California, from broiling Virginia.

I saw the diagram from Practical Hints but didn't know that "B" actually indicated two grease nipples ("zerks" -- looks like I need a dictionary of classic car mechanical terms!).

Your comment about modern grease sheds some light on some guidance a mechanic friend gave me when I first acquired the car. He said that I should need to lubricate the front suspension only at 5000 to 6000 miles, and that the 1000 miles, in Practical Hints, and the 1,500 in Haynes, seem "too low." He added that if I do lubricate at 1,500 miles, give it only one or two pumps of the grease gun ("don't overdo it").

I do wish there were better diagrams available for use by non-mechanic owners of these cars. All the manuals seem to use slight variations of the Practical Hints diagram, which is very hard to decipher by the inexperienced. I think more people would want to own these cars if the basic owner manuals were more "user-friendly." But, I guess they don't want to take all the mystery (aka "adventure") out of these cars.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Yes, I would guess that the owners manual on my wife's Toyota has more pages that the Haynes manual for the TR3/4. And yet that owners manual tells me almost nothing about maintenance apart from a schedule.

Randall mentioned the zerks on the driveshaft -- 2 are on the u-joints and pretty easy to see but the third is back in the tunnel on the slider, just aft of the tunnel hole for the front u-joint. It is hard to see and the dickens to get a grease gun on. I found a right-angle grease gun fitting that lets me get at it (probably at Harbor Freight).

Of course there are also zerks on each in of the clutch fork shaft and more zerks in the rear including the rear axle bearings -- those are the only ones where I am wary of over-lubing.

 

[Member 10617]

Question for TR3Driver.

You say "There are also seven zerks total for the steering (one on each tie rod end, plus one on the idler arm/bracket)." That accounts for five grease nipples, but where are the other two? I have consulted the diagram in the Moss catalog and find four grease nipples on the tie rod end sets (#53) and one on the idler bracket (#68).

 

[TR3driver]

Yes, I would guess that the owners manual on my wife's Toyota has more pages that the Haynes manual for the TR3/4.

OTOH, your wife's Toyota is much more complex than a TR3. Power windows, power door locks, air conditioning, steering interlock, shift interlock, remote controls for the trunk, gas cap and mirrors; the list goes on and on.

When I got my first TR3A, I got absolutely zero documentation with the car ... thought the Haynes manual was the Holy Grail when I found one a year or two later.

Today, with the Internet and especially BCF at your fingertips, you can have the answer to almost any question in a matter of minutes.

BTW, BCF does have a facility to search. Look near the top of the screen for the 'Search' button. It's location and appearance may vary depending on screen layout, but here's what it looks like for me. Click on the button, then choose the "Advanced" link to do any serious searching.

 

[TR3driver]

Another thought, as you are going through this now; feel free to write up any information that you feel others might need, and put it into the BCF Wiki:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php

I keep meaning to write up some technical articles; but somehow it never gets done

 

[TR3driver]

You say "There are also seven zerks total for the steering (one on each tie rod end, plus one on the idler arm/bracket)." That accounts for five grease nipples, but where are the other two?

Sorry, my bad. My car has been modified with all-metal replacements for the original "Silentblocs" which have two more zerks; the original type silentblocs should not be lubricated and so your car will only have 5 zerks.

BTW, I always put in enough grease that I can see the old grease being forced out through the seals (except of course for the rear wheel bearings). The goal is not just to ensure that the joint is full, but to force fresh grease into the wear points (thereby flushing away any wear particles or dirt that would cause more wear in the future).

Just use a paper towel to wipe away the excess grease afterwords.

 

[Member 10617]

Randall,

Many thanks for letting me know that BFC has a search function. I figured there must be one, but I didn't notice it.

George,

Thank you for pointing out the location of the grease nipples on the propeller shaft. Now the only remaining mystery is: How often to lubricate. Practical Hints says every 1,000 miles; Haynes says at intervals of 3,000 miles. I assume the difference is that PH is referring to 50s era grease and Haynes is referring to modern grease.

 

[Member 10617]

Randall,

Sorry, I didn't quite understand your last posting. Do you mean that my car has five zerks (grease nipples) and that ALL of them should be lubricated? I think that's what you said, but I just want to be certain.

 

[Don Elliott]

I do the ones on the driveshaft, hand-brake cable, rear brake cable detail that tightens the handbrakg and the two for the rear axle hubs about every 10 years.

Don't put too much in the driveshaft because the centrifugal force will just spit the unneeded excess all out in a big arc up in the tunnel and everywhere it can get to.

In 52 yeras of driving my 1958 TR3A (184,000 miles) it was two years ago that I had new u-joint bearings installed and while it was at the speed shop he balanced it too. But everything was still in good shafe. New repro bearing kits are garbage unless you buy a well known bearing name.

 

[Member 10617]

At the risk of appearing absolutely clueless (which I am), I am still baffled by the location of the suspension grease nipples.

Practical Hints has a diagram, conveniently shown above by Randall, and says, "Nipples are provided for lubricating the steering swivels (A), outer tie rod, ball joints, outer bushes of the lower wish-bones (B) (Fig. 13), and the steering slave drop arm pivot." Randall says the (B) is actually the location of two nipples (located front and back of the lower wishbone arm), and some versions of the Practical Hints manual do show two nipples. That makes four nipples. The steering slave drop arm pivot makes five. Problem is, no diagram shows the steering slave drop arm pivot nipple.

On the other hand:

Haynes says "There are four grease nipples situated on each independent front suspension unit. They are located on the lower wishbone outer bushes (2) and steering swivel (2). A further one grease nipple will be found on the outer tie-rod balljoint." Problem is, no diagram shows the outer tie-rod ball joint."

I guess what I need is a diagram that shows the location of the four plus one grease nipples for each independent front suspension. Has anyone seen such a diagram?

 

[martx-5]

This might help... The only grease fittings not shown with letters are the four (two each side) for the lower wishbone outer bushes...the one shown in Randall's diagram as "B", which is two zerks per side, however they are mentioned in the reference section.

Edit: The outer tie rod ends are "B" in this diagram.

 

[Geo Hahn]

At the risk of appearing absolutely clueless (which I am), I am still baffled by the location of the suspension grease nipples...

If you're looking at the front suspension and can't find them all then some possibilities:

They can be broken off, leaving the bottom end threaded into the item. Will look like a broken bolt with a hole down the center.

They can be so caked in grease & road crud that they are no longer recognizable (a sure sign they haven't been lubed in a looonnng time).

There can be parts fitted (e.g. tie rod ends) that are aftermarket items that do not have zerks. They're lubed-for-life meaning the life of the part (not you or the car).

You'll probably have to pull off the road wheel to see and lube the zerk on the upper ball joint. Once the wheel is off it is right there in front of you. All the others on the front suspension are pretty much in plain sight (if laying on your back with a mini-maglite in your mouth constitutes 'plain sight').

 

[Member 10617]

Many warm thanks for the diagram and the guidance. Stupidly, I had forgotten it was located at the end of the Practical Hints manual. I'll try to match the actual with the diagram.

George: There is a lot of caked on grease and road crud, and I am slowly getting it all off, treating for rust, and painting the frame, etc. But, I don't think any of the nipples have been broken off (keeping my fingers crossed).

Ha, ha. Yes, indeed, lying on my back with a light in my mouth> Been there; done that!

Once again, many thanks to you all. Armed with all this good information, I'll return to the garage and make a bold attempt to lubricate this puppy.

 

[TR3driver]

Problem is, no diagram shows the steering slave drop arm pivot nipple.

Here's a photo that shows it

(A) is the upper ball joint
(B) is the inner tie rod end
(C) is the idler arm (aka steering slave drop arm)

Here's another closeup, showing the three zerks on the lower suspension pivot (aka trunnion). Sorry the quality isn't the best, it's a closeup from a photo that was focused on something else.

 

[TR3driver]

Randall,

Sorry, I didn't quite understand your last posting. Do you mean that my car has five zerks (grease nipples) and that ALL of them should be lubricated? I think that's what you said, but I just want to be certain.

That's right.

Maybe a recap will help. There are a total of 13 nipples on the front suspension and steering, that Practical Hints suggests giving three or four strokes of grease, every 1000 miles.

(2) Upper ball joints (aka upper steering swivel)
(2) Trunnions (aka lower steering swivel)
(4) Tie Rod ends
(4) "Lower wishbone outer bushes"
(1) Idler arm (aka slave drop arm pivot)