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Lost a Cardinal

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very unfortunate. My heart goes out to his family.
Dave
 
Ditto to the family - however, unfortunately, he killed himself - the consequences of bad decisions...his blood alcohol level was twice normal, he was drunk & talking on his cell phone at time of accident, & he had marijuana in the car along with a crack pipe.

Now I wonder if the Cardinals will change their policy of having free alcoholic drinks available to the players in the locker room after games!
 
I don't think you guys want me to 'go there' right now.

And it is NOT just the Cardinals that have alcoholic drinks in the locker room after games Mr. Barnhill. In fact, the Cardinal organization & Busch Stadium have some of the strictest rules in MLB regarding drinking & selling alcoholic beverages. Including when they stop serving during games, free shuttles and rides from the game for fans that might be alcohol-impaired, designated driver programs etc. There are even 'free' buses and taxis for those that have had a bit much to drink.

This is sad, but it's only newsworthy because it's a *celebrity* - were it me under the exact same circumstances, I would have garnered a 2 line mention in the Illinois section of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

Thankfully he didn't have 2 or 3 other Cardinals in the Explorer with him.

And if you want to talk about something, how about the obligation and responsibility of the *serving* establishments to refuse to serve???
 
You can get free weed and crack after MLB games?
Now I understand the attraction of baseball...

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
It was NOT a crack pipe. Misinformation.
 
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif tetchy, ain't we?


Okay, I'll stir this pot...


Baseball:

Overpaid adult men playing childrens' games, pattin' eachother's bums, names like: Bobby, Jimmy, Johnny, Tommy...

It's a GAME! Much over-rated in terms of atheletic skill, too.


...there, THAT oughta do it...

STAND WELL AWAY!!! SHE'S GONNA BLOW!!!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]It was NOT a crack pipe. Misinformation.[/QUOTE]

oops, CNN had it wrong....it was a "glass pipe used for smoking marijuana"

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070504/sports/bbl_hancock_crash_1:

Police say Cardinals' Josh Hancock was drunk at time of fatal accident
Fri May 4, 12:36 PM

By Betsy Taylor

ST. LOUIS (AP) - St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Josh Hancock was drunk at the time of his fatal accident and marijuana was found in the sport utility vehicle he was driving.

Police Chief Joe Mokwa also said at a news conference Friday that the 29-year-old Hancock was speaking on a cellphone at about the time of the crash early Sunday on Interstate 64 in St. Louis.

"Mr. Hancock was legally intoxicated at the time of the accident," Mokwa said.

St. Louis medical examiner Michael Graham said Hancock's blood-alcohol level was 0.157, nearly twice Missouri's legal limit of 0.08.

Mokwa said 8.55 grams of marijuana and a glass pipe used to smoke marijuana were found in the rented Ford Explorer. Toxicology tests to determine if drugs were in his system had not been completed.

An accident reconstruction team determined Hancock was travelling 68 m.p.h. (110 km/h) in a 55 m.p.h. (90 km/h) zone when his SUV struck the back of a flatbed tow truck stopped in a driving lane. Mokwa said there was no evidence Hancock tried to stop. He did swerve, but too late to avoid the collision.

------------------------

Hey, he was an Alabama boy (Hancock was born in Cleveland, Miss., and attended high school in Birmingham, AL, before attending Auburn University) & I'm not taking it personal or getting testy...age-old lesson to be learned from this sad & unnecessary death: don't drink & drive! Whether its free in the locker room or bought at a restaurant after the game!
 
And the restaurant, a high-end joint owned by announcer Mike Shannon, managed by his (I believe) daughter. A place with a constant clientele of 'pretty people' -- celebrities, ball players, musicians -- the place to go and hang out (besides Hrabowsky's) before/during/after a game. This place has no liability in this? When witnesses knew he was drunk to the point he couldn't put a sentence together? To offer to call him a cab and when he refused, LET him walk out and drive away? To serve him to the point of inebriation?

Yea, kid's dead, comedy of errors. But frankly, the fault begins and ends at Shannon's restaurant. There has to be some sort of moral obligation if nothing else. If I can't stand up I'm so trashed and I order another SoCo and lime, damned well don't give it to me and either take my keys or call a cop.
 
And what exactly does that have to do with this Doc?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]This place has no liability in this? When witnesses knew he was drunk to the point he couldn't put a sentence together? To offer to call him a cab and when he refused, LET him walk out and drive away? To serve him to the point of inebriation?[/QUOTE]

Yep, I agree...they have some moral liability along with the ball club; but Mr. Hancock - especially Mr. Hancock - is the guy who made the decisions that ended his life!

...one of the reasons why I'm always the designated driver when my Army buddies & I go out drinking on our trips is so they don't have to make those decisions!
 
jaybird said:
And what exactly does that have to do with this Doc?
Click to expand...

Nothin' but your immediate reaction/defence of the poor kid.

And I see this as much or more a cultural problem as one of culpability on the part of the business owner(s)... and where's the condemnation of the burke who PARKED a TRUCK in a traffic lane?!?

Let's ~pretend~...

Some other driver, let's pick the average Joe/Jane here... was behind this kid. Pro'lly with the nose of their vehicle stuffed against the Explorer's bumper, mebbe a cell phone is involved... It's the norm, admit it... and the kid SEES the parked truck in time to swerve and just MISS... The regular Joe/Jane who's tailgating the Ford is NOT intoxicated but has no time to react and THEY die as a result. Who'd be the culpable party in *that* scenario?

Individuals are responsible for their own actions. It has actually been a big part of our legal system for a while. Lately there's some paradigm afoot to project fault elsewhere. Invoking blame on third parties is what I view as ~criminal~. There's no legal charge to covict someone of "Shame due to inaction": The pub, his friends, whoever was there will have to play the "what if" game for the rest of their lives. But ultimately it's the kid's fault. And the guy with the truck needs to have charges brought against him as a result of HIS poor judgement, too.

Let's get back to some semblance of reality.
 
doc, look at it this way had he been one of your buds would you have let him drive? mean to tell me no one in that place knew him well enough or was smart enough to give a rats butt? and jbird whatch out bout what ya say bout musicians i always assign a dez. driver when ever im gunna smoke dope and drink to excess. sounds like a good time ta do just that! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banana.gif
 
You KNOW that answer, Ant'ny. Not necessarily my point, tho.
 
doc, semblance of reality is that no one gave a rats butt about what would happen to this guy after his patronage at this watering hole! if that was one of your budds would you have let him drive? maybe everyone in the place was equally as blasted not to notice including the owners, i have taken the car keys away from several people i dint know well and got them a taxi and got their spouses to collect their keys or driven them home myself no big deal 2 phone calls, or perhaps he was o.k. till he got outside in the fresh air and then smoked or what ever we will never know, its still a shame and a needless loss of life, and jaybird watch out what you say bout musicians cuz i always assign a designated driver whenever im out drinkin and smoken dope. oops i forgot im not spoze ta forum wit ya till i find out what da heck happened to dat byrd! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thirsty.gif
 
Interesting, since my first post today, I saw an interview with one of his coaches...seems he was late for a game recently & the coach said he talked with him & asked him some questions to see if he was sober enough to play....apparently some people on the Cardinal staff at least suspected he had a drinking and/or drug problem prior to the accident.
 
anthony777 said:
doc, look at it this way had he been one of your buds would you have let him drive? mean to tell me no one in that place knew him well enough or was smart enough to give a rats butt?
Click to expand...

moi said:
You KNOW that answer, Ant'ny. Not necessarily my point, tho.
Click to expand...


ibid.
 
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

He *chose* to drink and drive, no? He chose to (allegedly) do drugs, no? I don't see any evidence it was forced on him.

But it then still becomes the responsiblity of someone else (that isn't his mother) to nanny his behaviour? If they had, he'd probably have sued...
 
The interview was with the Cardinal manager and he talked to Hancock about why he was late, he was not aware of why he was late. He said Hancock did not appear to be hung over and answered his questions promptly and correctly. At that time no one was aware of the accident he had Wed night/early Thur morning.

The tow truck had responded to a earlier one car accident (Chevy Geo) where the car was partially blocking the left lane. He parked the tow truck behind the car to protect it and turned on his yellow gumball lights. He saw the car coming and knew he was going to be hit. Mr Hancock would probably still be alive today if he had hit a Chevy Geo, however the people in the Chevy Geo probably would not be.

The person who said Hancock could not talk coherently left the restaurant at approximately 10:30 and Hancock did not leave until a little after midnight. The manager said she talked to Hancock for 10 to 15 minutes, asked if he wanted her to call a cab, and he declined saying he was going to walk to another place close by. She said he did not appear to be severly impaired at that time. I realize that sounds as if she has been coached.

The Cardinals have eliminated beer in the locker room after a game and on flights coming back to St. Louis after road trips.

There is no dram law liability because in MO if you get drunk and only injure/kill yourself you have not injured/killed an innocent third party so there is no liability.

Until the culture around drinking and driving changes in this country we will continue to read about these stories daily. They will get national attention when it is a "celebrity".
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]dram law liability [/QUOTE]

???
 
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