Looking for a TR

[Alan_Myers]

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--if I was looking at the right ones, you actually pulled the entire body off the frame, and had the frame and engine, still intact, in your front driveway?

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Hi,

Actually I bought a second frame, restored and reinforced it, then pulled parts from the car to be individually rehabed as needed, or replaced with new, and built up the rolling chassis from the ground up. It was essentially complete, with only the steering column and carbs removed to drop the body onto it. I'm sure that's what the original builders did in the factory.

The picture is actually the first time the new rolling chassis saw sunshine, temporarily rolled out into the driveway in prepararion to roll it back under the body that had just been lifted off the old frame.

The body takes about a day to strip to the point seen, loosen all the bolts, and disconnect everything so that it can be lifted. In this case, so much had been removed and restored or replaced onto the fresh chassis that it was really only an hour or two work. There wasn't much left still attached to the old frame.

Note that this was just lifitng off the old frame, dropping onto the new for trial fitting. So, I didn't remove a lot of the body parts that I would normally, if it were going for painting and finishing. That will come later, after all the mechanical stuff is sorted out and the remiander of the body work is done.

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How hard is it to remove body parts, and what kind of trouble did you have re-installing and replacing them over the years.

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I had little or no problem unbolting fenders, hood and such on this car several times. For one, I did a rolling restoration on it in 1979, and it's all still in pretty good shape. That resto was precipitated by a full-size pickup plowing into the rear of the car while I was stopped in a left turn lane. I replaced the rear valance, right rear fender, trunk lid, rear bumper at that time. The rockers were also replaced with fiberglass (But I'll be replacing with metal soon). The only rust is a small patch in the driver's floor (leaky master cyl. while in storage) and the base of the B-posts still need work.

The front fenders are coming off again soon, to get vents fitted. The right rear of the car needs some work, some internal straightening due to that old accident damage.

Various body parts on the car have been replaced over the years, but always with used items in the past. Only recently I bought the new driver's floor and the new rockers, parts seem good. I've toyed with the idea of replacing all the external panels with aluminum, which are available from England. But the price and cost of shipping might discourage it.

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It is a simple car. I'd be partial to TR4s and TR4As, and since friends over the years had "3s" I could go that way, too.

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Yes, I agree. They are a lot of fun to work on. I don't enjoy the computers and such on my "modern" cars!


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By the way, a good dash man for TRs is right there in San Jose. Randy Keller. I installed a new one from him about 4 months ago.

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I presume you mean a wood dash? Sorry, I'm partial to the painted TR4 dash. The wood looks great, but I like the painted look even better. I am planning to customize it with white-face gauges, though.

Cheers!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[arbs_53]

Jim,
One other source for the clunk in the rear end: excessive lash. My TR250 has the same clunk. I had all of the u-joints checked and personally inspected the differential mounts and found everything to be sound. A local mechanic checked it out for me and said it was due to wear over the years, which given its age, is not bad, but enough to cause some concern. It's on next years list of repairs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

 

[Jim_Webby]

Hello Arbs,

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with your suggestion. I did check the backlash of the diff when I went back to see the car again today. I found that I was able to rotate the axles about 1 inch around the circumference of the brake drums before I felt the gears engage to turn the other side - I would estimate this to be around 3 to 5 degrees of movement. Does this amount of lash seem excessive? The owner has a spare diff in his garage and I tried to see if this was the same as the one in the car. it was difficult, because I was comparing a brake drum to the diff hub, but I felt that this diff certainly dod not have as much lash.

I also managed to try out the seats with the rollbar removed. I think the seat was able to move back about another inch, which certainly helped. I also checked the steering column and it was already extended out as far as it would go.

Therefore, I think my options to get a more comfortable ride would be as follows;

(1) Use a smaller steering wheel - it has a 15" wheel, so reducing this to 13" will help. My only question is whether the wooden wheels are flat or have a dish to them that would push them out further than the OEM wheels. If they do then this would also help with clearance to my knees.
(2) Fabricate an adaptor to fit between the steering column and the steering wheel to bring it forward. Does anyone know if these are already being sold by someone?
(3) Remove the central support for the radio. My only concern with doing this is whether or not this would affect the rigidity of the dashboard and windscreen. My first thought was that this was fitted just to hold the radio, as I have seen cars both with and without this in place. But after having looked at it, and realising that it is in fact quite a substantial aluminium casting, I am now not so sure that removing it would be a good idea. Can anyone shed any light on whether removing the radio/dash support would have any negative effects on the car?

Thanks in advance for any answers to the questions above and any other advice.

Cheers,

Jim.

 

[Alan_Myers]

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore, I think my options to get a more comfortable ride would be as follows;

(1) Use a smaller steering wheel - it has a 15" wheel, so reducing this to 13" will help. My only question is whether the wooden wheels are flat or have a dish to them that would push them out further than the OEM wheels. If they do then this would also help with clearance to my knees.

(2) Fabricate an adaptor to fit between the steering column and the steering wheel to bring it forward. Does anyone know if these are already being sold by someone?

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Be a little cautious going to too small a steering wheel. No power steering here, so 14-15" are the norm to give enough leverage.

Steering wheels are available flat or with differing amount of dish, so shop around.

Look at the steering column right where it enters the dash. If there is a little room to slide it farther into the hole in the dash, a little more adjustment might be possible by custom shortening the column in the engine compartment.

Yes, there are also various mounting hubs for the steering wheels. In fact, many aftermarket steering wheel manufacuters use their own, proprietary mounting method, with varying depth. Some probably offer several thicknesses, but I'm not sure about this or which company(ies) might do so. You'll need to shop around.

I happen to use an early TR6 wheel and hub on my TR4. The hub is deep while the steering wheel only has about 1" of dish (and I'm modifying a spare steering wheel to be more flat and have a thicker grip). I'm sure I could fit a shallower hub, or have something custom made, but this one works for me.

One caveat: If you ever want to go vintage racing with your car, many race sanctioning bodies prohibit the used of wooden steering wheels.

Other than that, wood rimmed steering wheels look great, especially if the car has a wood dash!

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(3) Remove the central support for the radio. My only concern with doing this is whether or not this would affect the rigidity of the dashboard and windscreen. My first thought was that this was fitted just to hold the radio, as I have seen cars both with and without this in place. But after having looked at it, and realising that it is in fact quite a substantial aluminium casting, I am now not so sure that removing it would be a good idea. Can anyone shed any light on whether removing the radio/dash support would have any negative effects on the car?

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Don't remove the dash support! It's important structurally.

You will see "scuttle shake" without it installed, and that vibration might weaken and damage the car's body structure over time!

On TR4, it might be possible to use a slightly narrower width upper support plate, where the radio normally installs, in order to gain some room. There is someone on eBay offering repro replacements, who is a long time TR fan, and he might be able to have one made up to a specific width for you.

The TR4A and later design dash support is one-piece and I don't think any narrowing will be possible.

Even on the TR4, the lower, cast support is about as narrow as it can get and still do the job.

The only alternative I've seen to the dash support is part of a full roll cage, custom installed. Some of these use angular braces that go from the dash support mounts on the floor, up and forward to the firewall and a cross tube installed there. However, even if you wanted to adapt the design or were considering a full roll cage (which I doubt you want), I think this setup would make for even less leg room than the stock dash support.

Non-original seats might be another way to gain some leg room. The original TR lowback seats lean back pretty far.

A lot of TRs are running around with Mazda Miata or MX5 seats installed. These can be adjusted to position you a little more upright and give you the added protection of a headrest, where some even have stereo speakers installed.

Or, later TR6 seats with headrests might be used.

Alternatively, Corbeau Classic, Corbeau Clubman and the older, original Corbeau GT are several fixed-back/racing designs that will fit.

All of the above actually look pretty good in the earlier cars, IMHO.

Most seat replacements just need custom mounting brackets made up. Usually this is not too big a deal.

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[trboost]

Hey Jim,
As you can see there will be no lack of help on this list. After reading your posts I didn't see any mention of a specific model or year TR. If It's an IRS car then another possible source of the clunk could be either a broken Diff mount or worn or deteriorated diff mounting bushings. Both are common. You can check for a broken diff mount by pulling a wheel & look for a crack at the bridge where the bolt passes through. You can examine the mounting bushings at the same time.

Your on the right track in creating more thigh & driving position room by swapping out the steering wheel. I personaly have found the 13" a little to small for street use & used a wheel I found at VB made by Mounty (made in England) . Leather cover , 14" and the hub is the same depth as original. Most replacement wheels I've seen , stock or smaller us a hub that actually brings the wheel closer to the driver. The dish on the Mounty wheel is minimal. Over all this gave me the thigh room & arm length I like . I know several 6' plus Tr owners that have moved the seat tracks back to gain additional room.

I definitly would NOT remove the center console , as it is a structural part of the winshield/bulkhead support , at least on the TR250 & 6 that I'm sure of. Removal would cause the floorboards to sag & the car to flex, not good stuff.

The best way to replace the oil seal is to remove the trany. I hate working on my back, removing the driveshaft from under the car sucks. When you get good , you can have the trany on the bench in under 2 hrs (ask me how I know, not something I'm proud of /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

 

[Jim_Webby]

I realised that I never clarified what the car I have been looking at actually is! It is a 1968 TR250.

With the responses above in mind, I guess I am stuck with the centre support and will have to come up with a steering wheel and hub combination that will place the rim of the wheel closer towards me, such that I can get my knees up and behind it.

I have a Nardi wooden wheel on the 356 Speedster replica I have sold, and I am very pleased with the look and feel of the wooden rim. Although I guess a Moto-lita or Mountney wheel would be more in keeping with a British car.


I will also keep in mind the alternative seats idea, should the wheel adjustment not work 100%.

I did check the diff mounts, as I thought this could be a possible source of the noise. However, they were relatively new and were in fact replaced at the same time as the trans and engine mounts and Hardy-Spicer joints.

I think I am close to making a decision, I just have to weigh up some more options, and some other vehicles, I am considering. For me the one overriding advantage of this particular vehicle is that it is local to me, and I have had the opportunity to both see and drive it prior to making a decision. I did buy my current Porsche sight unseen, except for photos, but it was an unfinished kit that I knew I was going to do the majority of work on in order to complete it. I therefore did not have any major issues aside from ensuring that all the items were present. Buying a manufactured vehicle is, to me at least, a completely different proposition. Especially one that is potentially almost 40 years old.

Also, I like the idea of spending the $1000 or so it would cost me to ship a car from the West coast, or wherever, on other bits and pieces such as a new steering wheel and new carpets.

I guess I still am not used the vast differences in geographical scale between the UK and the US. Realising that to go see a potential car would involve driving the equivalent of London to Glasgow, or even further, takes some getting used to. It can certainly wipe the smile off of my missus' face as she contemplates another weekend stuck in the car with our kids! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif

Cheers,

Jim.

 

[arbs_53]

Jim,
That backlash does seem to be more than what I have on mine. If memory serves, I can turned the diff hubs about 1/8" to 1/4" before they grab. Hard to say what that translates to at the drum.