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Here is a little test i did. I ordered el-cheapo paper wrapped short lifters,AE short lifters,repro long lifters and supplied 2 OE B-Leyland long lifters for rockwell testing. The ordered parts came from Engel imports in Kalamazoo Mi. I thought the original equipment NOS lifters would be a great baseline to work from. See pic for results. I hope this helps when you build your next MGB engine! Bob
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Lifter/ Rockwell testing results
- Thread starter bob67bgt
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They are the same as the new short AE lifters. What surprised me was the repro long lifters being the hardest. At least we have some real numbers to work from. It was pretty neat watching and getting the numbers one by one. I thought about having my head shaved and tested but did not want to actually know how hard it is. Bob
If they were rolled in paper and cheap i would not use them!!You can see the remains of the paper wrappers on the ones that tested poorly. The AE were individually bagged. I can not advise what Moss sold you. I have used the cheapo lifters in the past with Delta cams and had good luck(no failure after 30,000 miles) But would i do it with the knowledge i have about lifters now? nope! Bob
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RonMacPherson
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Before he retired, the other Engel, in the bay area. Was contracted by Moss to perform rockwell harness tests on all their lifters. Dunno if that operation is still in place. Last I heard, about 8 months ago. He was retiring completely, no more website operations, no more cam grinding, no more consulting, no more teaching...
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I've been asked to Rockwell test the Engel AE lifter, they are at my buddy's shop right now.
If you running a billet or nitrited hardened cam ( and you should be) then you need lifter with a RC number of 57 or greater, Mini Spares Lightened lifter goes at about 58-59, and APT's CF-04 are about 60.
If you're running a delta cam or similar regrind, then mid 50s is ok, the cam lobes will probably wear first anyway
If you running a billet or nitrited hardened cam ( and you should be) then you need lifter with a RC number of 57 or greater, Mini Spares Lightened lifter goes at about 58-59, and APT's CF-04 are about 60.
If you're running a delta cam or similar regrind, then mid 50s is ok, the cam lobes will probably wear first anyway
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I notice you have the numbers posted on a Delta Cams notepad. I have used Delta for a couple of cam regrinds and lifter resurfacings, they have great prices annd turnaround (and you get a free T shirt, Bonus) but I have not Rockwell tested the lifters that they resurfaced. Bob, you haven't run any tests on Delta resurfaced have you? thanks, Greg
Greg, I have not. I have been running Delta cams for years with no problems at all. When i tore down my wifes 63 MGB engine after 80 or 90,000 miles the cam and lifters did show some wear(pitting). But no lobes gone bad enough to have any running issues. The lifters used were the aftermarket long lifters. I have not used Deltas lifters. I did have one reground cam where the center bearing was turned 5 thou(gotta watch for that) and my buddy just got one from Gordon at the Behive and the slot for the key was loose. Gordon looked after him as a proper businness man should! Just check the cams before installation! Bob
That's great info.
After market stuff is always a gamble as far as quality material and processing goes.
I have a machine shop and do heat treating and rockwell testing.
The soft lifters are either lower carbon steel or not heat treated properly. Cheap!
Save a couple bucks!?
Most lifters without caps should be in the mid to upper 50RC range. The Rc will vary 2-4 just by being placed in the oven at different positions. Different material lots also affect Rc.
So a 2-3 point difference is normal even from the same lot.
*55-58Rc would be ideal, in my oppinion.
If the lifter checks in the low 60's they probably were not tempered and could develope cracking.
My 2 cents.
bob67gt, you should post this info in other area's of the forum.
Thanks
Lyle
After market stuff is always a gamble as far as quality material and processing goes.
I have a machine shop and do heat treating and rockwell testing.
The soft lifters are either lower carbon steel or not heat treated properly. Cheap!
Save a couple bucks!?
Most lifters without caps should be in the mid to upper 50RC range. The Rc will vary 2-4 just by being placed in the oven at different positions. Different material lots also affect Rc.
So a 2-3 point difference is normal even from the same lot.
*55-58Rc would be ideal, in my oppinion.
If the lifter checks in the low 60's they probably were not tempered and could develope cracking.
My 2 cents.
bob67gt, you should post this info in other area's of the forum.
Thanks
Lyle
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Yoda
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I glad you bumped this thread, I got the two new AE lifters Ingles Imports sent me to have tested, one tested at 47, one at 54. Lyle, I agree with you, especially if you are using a billet cam or nitritied hardened cam, I recommend APT's CF-04 lifters, I've also tested the Mini Spares, alos sold by Moss, lightened harden lifter, and they test at 56-57, APT around 60, we used both of these lifter in high end street engines and race engine with zero problems.
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Yoda
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YB, CF-04, is the short lifter, David (APT) only makes the really good lifters in the short 18V style, it's the same lifter for both the 18V MGB and all A series Spridgets. I cenvert all the early long lifter, short pushord engines to the 18V set up. Here's the deal if you are looking a APT website, it is horribly outdated, I always kid david about this, you ned to call him, alot of the price and now parts availabilty on the website has change, so best to call them. If I rember right the CF-01 was the lifter he used before he started making the CF-04s, even if he had CF-01s in stock, spend the extra money and get the CF-04 lifters. You want the very best lifter you can get for the billet cams.