Lifter questions

[LastDeadLast]

For the past few months, I've been dealing with a faint miss at all RPMs that I can't get rid of. So on a wim and after hearing all the guff about camshafts and lifters, I decided to take off my valve cover and check to see if my lifters do in-fact rotate like I've read that they should.

Well.. about half of the lifters <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">do not</span></span> rotate at idle. This is a bad thing right?

I'm running Richard Good's GP2 cam (chilled) and hi-po valve springs. I also purchased the lifters from his as well, but this is before he officially sold lifters so I think he got them from TRF if memory serves me correctly.

-s

 

[DougF]

I had a random miss that haunted me for a long time. A complete distributor tear down, cleaning and lube eliminated it totally.

 

[LastDeadLast]

Doug, thanks for the reply.

I'm running a relatively new (installed shortly after the engine rebuild about 6000 miles ago) Mallory unlite dizzy and coil. The thing puts out a gazillion volts to the plugs. I've gone through the diagnostics that Mallory lists and it passes with flying colors. However, just to be sure, I ordered another e-spark module to see if it gets any better, should be in next week. The plugs are brand new and are running with a nice tan color like they should be.

I've been living with the faint miss for a while now.. and it predates me changing my carbs over.

One thing that I'm dealing with now is this: The car had a psychotic episode the other day that caused it to loose all power and die. It appeared at the time that fuel was the issue since I couldn't get any gas to pump out the fuel line unless I manually primed it. Well I changed the filter, and took apart the pump.. really didn't find anything wrong with it since it had been recently rebuilt. The pump was clean and the filter was not blocked in anyway. I reinstalled the pump and it fired right up.

However after setting the idle up to about 2500 rpm to play with the timing, it soon had another psychotic episode. It slowly started to miss and stumble badly... by fluctuating the throttle for a couple minutes I was able to keep it running and the problem slowly went away. :crazy:

At first, I didn't think that the episodes and the faint miss were related, but after now the miss seems to be getting worse. It's actually rather prominent. And I can't tune it out by playing with the timing or mixture.

This is when I checked the lifters and found that about half of them aren't turning. Heck all three issues might be unrelated, but I'm starting to get a little worried. If I have to tear down this thing, it'll be down for while.

Sorry for the long post.

-s

 

[Don Elliott]

I suffered the exact same episodes in my 1958 TR3A about 6 times last summer as well as twice this summer. It was usually when the engine was hot. On one occasion it happened just as the engine got up to temperature. The float bowls were empty when it really got bad. The fuel pumped out when I took off the outlet pipe. Put it back together and it ran fine. The other times, I just let it sit for a while. Maybe it cooled down ?

I am still trying to answer the question. It happened most often in USA where you have up to 10% ethanol and also with two major Candian suppliers (Sunoco and PetroCan) here in Canada. At times, it might wil fine for 100 to 200 miles then it starts sputtering and sounds like it's running out of gas or like it's only running on two cylinders. In Canada, I have not had these problems with Shell or with Esso gas. The last two times this summer, if I put it in neutral as soon as it happens, and rev the engine while I'm still rolling at 60 MPH, it revs up fine. Put a load back on and it sputters.

Last summer, Randall suggested that I change the 50-year old braided rubber hose that feeds the banjo fittings on my carbs and I did this in May. It's happened twice since then with this new hose.

 

[Don Elliott]

To answer your question about your new can followers (lifters), I still have all my original lifters in my TR3A with 0ver 179,000 miles on them. Several times in the past 18 years, when the head was off or I was re-building the engine, I have found that some of the lifters had spiral wear marks on the flat side, indicating they had been rotating. Others had a groove mark showing about 0.010" deep. These had not been rotating. So I lapped them flat again with fine emery cloth on a flat glass plate and put them back in.

Speak to you supplier. Richard will be the one who can help you best.

 

[LastDeadLast]

Don,

That's a great idea about the temps. I know yesterday the bottom of the SU's were almost too hot to touch.. however that was sitting still. I've never really had this issue before, but it sounds logical. Maybe I need to look into a heat shield?

I think I've muddied the waters in this post by introducing my psychotic episode problem, my main issue here are the pushrods not rotating. If needbe I'll open another post to talk about that.

 

[Guest]

With all that fire coming from your coil, what are your plugs gapped at? I recently (yesterday) put some new Champions in and gapped them at 34 and found my engine ran too hot. Need to jerk them out and go back below 30, I think.

 

[Guest]

Those Mallory distributors are supposed to be very good. Some guy on the 6-Pack forum put one on and "never looked back".


.

 

[LastDeadLast]

Those Mallory distributors are supposed to be very good. Some guy on the 6-Pack forum put one on and "never looked back".


.

Really uncalled for. If you don't have anything constructive to add, then please refrain from commenting.

When it's proven that the Mallory is the issue... I'll retract that statement. But until then, that dizzy has been the most stable thing about the car.

 

[LastDeadLast]

With all that fire coming from your coil, what are your plugs gapped at? I recently (yesterday) put some new Champions in and gapped them at 34 and found my engine ran too hot. Need to jerk them out and go back below 30, I think.

I'm running them at 30 or 35.. 35, I think. I asked several people, including Mallory about what the gap should be and I used that. Maybe I'll drop it down to 30 and see what happens..

I'm running NGK plugs (one level colder then stock).

-s

 

[Tinster]

Shannon-

My car has few miles driven but I have one lifter
that does not spin. It does not seem to bother anything.

My car also would suddenly quit and then suddenly fire
back up. Turned out to be vapor lock from the carb bowls.
I installed a carb heat shield and the problem went away.

dale

 

[LastDeadLast]

Shannon-

My car has few miles driven but I have one lifter
that does not spin. It does not seem to bother anything.

My car also would suddenly quit and then suddenly fire
back up. Turned out to be vapor lock from the carb bowls.
I installed a carb heat shield and the problem went away.

dale

Dale,

Thanks, I think that might be at least one of my issues here. I'm going to try to make a template today for a heat shield.

-s

 

[Tinster]

Shannon-

Here's a photo of my final carb heat shield. I have
the Ratco cable throttle linkage so I needed to make
a two piece shield. I glued non-combustible insulation
to the metal but that concept is kinda "iffy" in terms
of safety. I used TRF shield as my base.

The carb bowls sit on the insulation and I never had
the vapor lock problem again.

good luck
d
:thumbsup:

 

[LastDeadLast]

Dale,

I'll probably end up making mine from scratch. Nobody makes a TR6 heat shield for 2" SU carbs unfortunately. Shouldn't be too hard though, the design of the HS8 lends makes it a little easier than with the Strombergs. But like you, I've got the Ratco linkage to deal with.

There's a metal shop in town that I'll probably take the template to get plama cut. I'm also going to make it a "dual layer" shield with some kind of insulation sandwiched in betweek the layers of stainless.

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Check the plug wires, dist. cap, and rotor. Check by replacing if you can. Also, if you are running points, seems there have been some problems with them sticking, mostly after warmed up. You can open the points with a screwdriver, and if they are sticking, they will close slowly. I had the lifter and lobe wiped out on a cam, but didn't have a miss, however, it would not have been long before I did. Also, you made a BIG mistake using stonger valve springs, your set up will fail, however, I don't know when. The springs I think are the key, to making these things work for a decent amount of time. The springs I think are best, are easy to get and cheap, at least for now. I dont' think there are any camshafts being made that are exactly right. And, thats not going to change. It just costs to much. I think I know the best set up now. There are some suppliers who mean well, that just aren't doing enough testing, I guess. If someone has money to burn, I would like to see Crane make a billet, they say they will. However, the lifters would have to be made out of the same material, and, that may be expensive. The material I think they called 8620, if I remember right. As far as the cams available now, the grinder may be the problem, only a cam expert will now for sure, and that, I am not. You mite tear your engine down, and find that the lifters that are not spinning are in good shape, and one of the ones that was spinning is torn to pieces, as I found on mine. I am glad I tore mine down, as I saved myself an engine rebuild, after being told not to worry about it, just keep driving. I put another cam in, and 3 lifters did not spin, so, I tore it down again, and, now I think I have the right set up. Time will tell.

 

[LastDeadLast]

Check the plug wires, dist. cap, and rotor. Check by replacing if you can. Also, if you are running points, seems there have been some problems with them sticking, mostly after warmed up.

I've got all of the above the parts on order now.

Also, you made a BIG mistake using stronger valve springs, your set up will fail, however, I don't know when. The springs I think are the key, to making these things work for a decent amount of time. The springs I think are best, are easy to get and cheap, at least for now. I don't' think there are any camshafts being made that are exactly right. And, that's not going to change. It just costs to much. I think I know the best set up now.

Don't know what to say here... I used the springs recommended by the cam manufacturer (or vendor at the very least). Based on the knowledge of the industry at the time, it was the best option. As a matter of fact, Richard Good did the machine work and assembly of my head!

I'm going to contact Richard to see what he thinks. I'm very near to the point where I want to get this issue resolved, put it back together and sell the thing.

 

[TheSearcherMan]

I completely understand, as I will sell mine if it doesn't do right now. I am tired of changing camshafts. The original CP springs only had a seat pressure of a little over 30 psi. This is one place the suppliers screwed up. Triumph used these springs because they knew what they were doing, it is that simple. Some want to use about 2-3 times this pressure, why? If the valves don't float, why do you need all this pressure. Also, I can tell all of the people in here, now that I have a genuine CP camshaft installed, it is the best all around, for street use. I also think it is about all the design will tolerate, on the vavle train, for reliablility, and long term use. With these springs, even if the lifters don't spin, it will be a long time before the cam or lifters are worn out. The only draw back is it does lope at idle. Also, if you install the stock type shorter push rods, you need to roll them on a piece of glass BEFORE you install them, you will be surprised what you see. Roll all of them, not just one. And if you do use CP springs, you need to check them against the Bentley manual to make sure they are the real thing, and don't forget the inner spring collars, they are different for the CP inner spring, and, all most impossible to find anywhere. I used the expensive tubular pushrods, they seem to be fine, at 3 times the price. However, I don't mind paying for quality. Also, Richard is a great guy to do business with.

 

[Guest]

Mysteriously, when my car was hard redlined for about 60 seconds (in second gear) the problem of wiped out cam and trashed lifters suddenly appeared. Go figure. Coincidence? Will never know. But my double valve springs were set at a very low rate, with no collars. I kinda think we floated the valves, which in turn affected the lifters and cam. Went with new cam, hardened lifters and much higher spring pressure, about 180 closed and 80 open. Got 2K miles on this setup and my chromoly shortened pushrods are spinning happily.