Lever Shock Oil Level

[BJ8Healeys]

If a shock does not leak, yet occasionally needs topping off, where does the oil go?

Well, when I say they don't leak, they don't "drip" but might seep slowly enough that they require topping up every few years or so, depending on how much the car is driven. The last time I serviced them according to my logbook was 2 April 2015. I did it again 30 April 2019 to prepare to the trip to Conclave -- 5,500 miles between the two dates. None of them required a significant amount of oil. I use motorcycle fork oil because it has seal conditioning additive. The container says "Heavy 20W, PJ1 Motorcycle Fork Tuning Oil".

 

[bob hughes]

I found that my shocks squeaked if a bolt was slightly loose. For a banging noise to have occurred, and for the problem to be associated with the bolts, I would imagine that the bolts would be well on their way to being undone.

I have seen a Healey with the dampers incorrectly installed, in Bill Rawles place earlier this year, but I guess that is not your problem here?

Cheers

Bob

 

[AUSMHLY]

Jack stands are placed under the frames I-beams.
Scissor jack is placed under the spring seat, so I can raise/lower the control arm.
Front shocks are bolted in place.
When the control arm is raised, the top trunnion does not centered between the shock arms. What would cause that and how do I fix it?
Could the problem be the lower trunnion bushings? Are adjustable trunnions available for the lower control arm?
I plan on installing adjustable bushing in the top to help the camber being off.

I believe the fronts shocks are not right/left specific. I did try switching, made no difference.
The passenger trunnion presses against left (rear of car) shock arm.
The driver trunnion presses against the right (rear of the car) shock arm.

I can force the trunnion between the arms. I'm concerned it doesn't seem to fit. I can force the trunnion, bushings, shock arms and fulcrum pin together. I'll assume everything associated with the shock links will be under more stress then if things lined up. Stress on the internals of the shock, the bushings, maybe affecting the ride?

It's like when a nut has resistance, stop and figure out why, don't force it. Forcing most likely will ruin the threads on the bolt, nut or both.

Sorry, photos are sideways, tried many times, keeps reverting to this.

 

[steveg]

If you're raising one side with the scissor jack, you're working against the anti-roll bar. It would be lifting the front lower control arm, causing the swivel axle to tilt backward.

Suggest supporting the car with the jackstands under the spring pans instead of the frame rails. That should even things out.

 

[AUSMHLY]

If you're raising one side with the scissor jack, you're working against the anti-roll bar. It would be lifting the front lower control arm, causing the swivel axle to tilt backward.
Suggest supporting the car with the jackstands under the spring pans instead of the frame rails. That should even things out.

Hi Steve,
Maybe the issue of the trunnion and shock arms don't center is because of how I have the car jacked up?

It seems no matter how much information I provide, I just don't provide enough. I'll elaborate on my set up.

I have 4 jacks placed under the frame rails of the car. I've read put the rear jacks on the leaf spring right next to the axle. Front jacks under the spring plate.
I may have the wrong design of jack stands, for when I place it on the leaf spring, it wants to slide off as I lower with the jack. Normally I put the front stand under the spring plate.
I placed the front jack on the frame so that I can use a scissor jacks to raise and lower the control arms what ever fraction of an inch I need to take pressure off the fulcrum pin. I did measure the distance, floor to center of trunnion, both sides are the same. So I'll assume that the roll bar is level, not affecting more pressure on one control arm vs the other.

I've never tried a jack under the spring plate, then remove the shock. I thought I'd have a hard time getting the fulcrum pin out, being it's under load from the spring. Once out, and I remove the shock, what's to keep the car from lowing down because the shock is gone?
I've been know to be wrong, so maybe this is one of those times.

Maybe all Healey have this issue, the trunnions don't center within the shock arms, you need to force it into place?

 

[Bob_Spidell]

If I've got this right--not guaranteed--caster angle on a Healey is achieved by offsetting the bottom A-arm brackets. IOW, the front and rear A-arm brackets are not parallel to the main chassis rails or each other. The rear A-arm bracket is located to the outside of the front bracket, but since the A-arm legs are the same length the bottom of the A-arm is skewed to the front, so the bottom trunnion is not directly below the top trunnion, producing a degree or two of positive caster (since this produces some binding it is important to use bushings with some give). Anyways, check the alignment of your bottom A-arm brackets; some misalignment could cause the caster of the king pins to be off a little. It's also conceivable for shock mount to be bunged-up, but this isn't very likely and would probably be obvious.

 

[steveg]

Maybe get back to a base line: remove the springs and spring plates; unbolt the anti-roll bar from the front A-arms.
Operate the suspension by hand and check for binding at the lower trunnion, as well as the upper trunnion alignment between the upper A-arm fork.

If that all works out, assemble the upper trunnions to the upper A-arms. Finally, reinstall the springs, pans and anti-roll bar.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

I found that my shocks squeaked if a bolt was slightly loose. For a banging noise to have occurred, and for the problem to be associated with the bolts, I would imagine that the bolts would be well on their way to being undone.

That has not been my experience. The first time it occurred for me was in 1990, 6 years after I bought the car in 1984. When I finally determined the noise was coming from the rear shock on the left side, the nut was only slightly loose. I didn't hear the noise again until recently after driving about 10 miles on very rough pavement. This time, I knew what to do, and when I checked the shock again I found the nut only very slightly backed off. Tightening it as much as I could stopped the noise. The bolt and its hole are a clearance fit, and any relaxation of the torque enough to allow the bolt to move laterally can cause the banging. By the way, the nuts on both sides were backed off about the same amount.

 

[AUSMHLY]

Any resolution on the "bang" sound?

Yes, seems the rear shocks needed to be rebuilt. Now no "bang" sound, which I'll assume was because the rear end was hitting the bump stops from excessive travel.

 

[kodpkd]

I have looked at the YouTube video on filling the AH shock. They filled the shock to the very top. The filler hole was at the very top of the shock, as in the BJ8 shock. The earlier shocks have the fill hole on the side of the shock. With the shock off the car you can fill it completely by laying it on the side. This would be the same as the BJ8. Question: Is it a good idea to fill them completely like the BJ8 or only to the edge of the hole?

 

[John Turney]

I have looked at the YouTube video on filling the AH shock. They filled the shock to the very top. The filler hole was at the very top of the shock, as in the BJ8 shock. The earlier shocks have the fill hole on the side of the shock. With the shock off the car you can fill it completely by laying it on the side. This would be the same as the BJ8. Question: Is it a good idea to fill them completely like the BJ8 or only to the edge of the hole?

There needs to be some room for expansion of the oil as it heats from use.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

There needs to be some room for expansion of the oil as it heats from use.

That's what Peter Caldwell told me, but who wants to listen to a professional Armstrong shock rebuilder over an anonymous YouTuber.

As for oil, you want something with anti-foaming agents; fork or jack oil may work fine, but for a few bucks I go with the Moss product.

 

[kodpkd]

That's why I ask the question. Good to know.

 

[twas_brillig]

AH Spares in Jolly Olde sells Castrol Classic TQF for the Armstrong shocks. The Castrol TQF data sheet description below advises that it's a substitute for a Ford spec automatic transmission fluid. This is just an FYI. I'm thinking that the anti-foaming aspects of ATF and fork oil

Product Data
Castrol Classic TQF
Automatic Transmission Fluid for Classic Vehicles
Description
Classic TQF is an automatic transmission fluid specially formulated from high quality mineral oils and incorporates
various additives to provide wear, oxidation and corrosion resistance. The product is dyed red to distinguish it from
crankcase oils should leakage occur .
Application
Classic TQF was specically formulated to meet the requirements of the now obsolete Ford automatic transmission fluid
(ATF) specification ESW-M2C-33G / -33F as required for many older transmission used in classic vehicles. It may also
be used as a general hydraulic fluid or power steering fluid where the Manufacturer specifies the use of an ATF. It should
not be used where MERCON ® or DEXRON® type fluid is required

 

[twas_brillig]

are important. and that - considering how little a person would use - it's probably worthwhile buying the Castrol or Dynalite stuff. We're running Udo Putzke's Bilstein conversion kit, and it's been years since I tried topping off our Bugeye's shocks, so not real current. Doug

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Classic TQF was specically formulated to meet the requirements of the now obsolete Ford automatic transmission fluid

'Obsolete' but not unavailable. I smell a whiff of British haughtiness (misspelled word notwithstanding).

https://www.motorcraft.com/us/en_us/home/our-products/chemicals-and-lubricants/transmission-fluid/type-f-automatic-transmission-fluid-and-power-steering-fluids.html

 

[kodpkd]

My guess would be that the 20 weight is an important part of the correct fluid.
My other question, with air in the shock reservoir would the oil tend to get aerated?

 

[John Turney]

My guess would be that the 20 weight is an important part of the correct fluid.
My other question, with air in the shock reservoir would the oil tend to get aerated?

Some racers have been known to put more viscous oil in their shocks to stiffen them up.

Unless oil has leaked out, the moving parts are well below the fluid level in the shock body, so aeration shouldn't be an issue. Some pressurized ones were built for racing to keep the oil from boiling, but they are pretty rare.

 

[kodpkd]

I removed the right shock to install a new shock link. While it was off I drained the oil and refilled it. There wasn't that much oil left. It does feel better. I don't want to remove the left shock.
Is there a trick replacing the oil in the shock while it's on the car?

 

[dougie]

Here's a little secret Healey racers use...www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/shop/screamin-eagle-performance-fork-oil/p/62600027