TR2/3/3A Late 57 Production with a Small Mouth Apron

[mastaphixa]

I recently purchased a 1957 TR3 with a commission number that places it well within the range of cars that should have been built with a large mouth apron. It has a small mouth apron. The obvious reason would be that it was replaced. I have also heard that as that transition in production was underway there were small mouth aprons left and some cars were produced with them. Any validity to the latter?

Also, the commission number TS 26005 has no drive side designation. I would have thought there would have been an L at the end of it. Thoughts?

Cheers
Steve Baker

 

[Geo Hahn]

Absence of a letter L at the end of the commission number originally indicated that a car was built RHD (right hand drive) -- those did not get an 'R'.

It is possible this car began life as a right hand drive car and was converted, calling into question the originality of the front end.

Also possible (and a lot less work) is that a commission plate from a (later) RHD car was used on an earlier LHD body.

If you are comfortable posting a photo of the commission plate - there may be some tell-tale signs if it has been swapped - in particular the rivets used.

 

[TR3driver]

Also look at the front inner fenders (aka wings) behind the turn signals. "Wide mouth" cars have a big indentation in the sheet metal to clear the back of the turn signal body; which is in a slightly different place than the hole used on "small mouth" cars. (The flat faced "small mouth" turn signal lamp body extends farther back than the "beehive" lamps used on later cars.) Also examine the bottom edge of the inner wings, where the bumper supports pass under; for signs of the edge having been modified.

Strange things did happen at the factory sometimes, so nothing is impossible; but it seems more likely to me that something has been altered after the fact.

Does it have the locking handle on the trunk, and exterior door handles, and the 3A style interior door panels?

 

[Andrew Mace]

One other thing to look at would be the body number plates, especially the "EB" plate. It won't match the commission number but it shouldn't be vastly far away from the commission number. Same, too, with the engine number (assuming the engine is original).

 

[mastaphixa]

Randall, yes to all the door/trunk handle questions. I'll have to check on the other details you have given me to check.

 

[mastaphixa]

I am including images of the data plate showing the commission number. I think the L is there, it's just way off to the right. I also an image of the engine sn and a shot of the front of the car. Thank you all for your time.

 

[Geo Hahn]

You are right, the L is there. The rivets also look correct (original). Mine:

Are the body tags on the car?

A Heritage Cert may tell you more about the car & engine's history.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Data plate is the style for the TR3A (smaller; the TR2's and 3's had larger, square plates like this one: ). And since you have door and boot lid handles, it's likely someone replaced the apron at some point.

 

[ckeithjordan]

The commission plates changed from the large octagonal ones to the rectangular plates in 1957. There was an interim style of plate that year, commission numbers TS19XXX, where they took the large one and trimmed off the bottom (see attached photo). My 1957 TR3, TS20447L (built July 1957), has a rectangular plate. Speculation by the Triumph Register folks in the UK is that the trimming occurred because the patents listed on the large plates were no longer valid, so they eliminated that portion until rectangular commission plates were introduced. No other plausible explanation has come up.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Maybe this will help:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...original tr3 commission plate piggott&f=false

 

[sp53]

According to that Piggott book tr3A did not happen until TS22014.

 

[CJD]

According to that Piggott book tr3A did not happen until TS22014.

Yep, that takes Mastaphixa’s car out of any possible transition range. The apron was changed by someone who liked the small mouth more. The good news, if you want to go back to the “original” widemouth, your small mouth apron will bring more money than the widemouth will cost!?!

Also, the far right L is typical, as I don’t think they knew which drive the bodies would have until after the plate was attached. The L was added later.

 

[mastaphixa]

It all works for me, because I really like the small mouth better anyway. I wanted a '57 because I'm a '57 and I wanted a small mouth. I'm not concerned with the originality. I find the history of these cars part of the attraction. Thank you all for contributing to this thread!

 

[Geo Hahn]

It all works for me, because I really like the small mouth better anyway...

Me too. Enjoy the car!

 

[TR3driver]

Me too. Enjoy the car!

Me three! My 56 actually came to me with a wide mouth apron; took a fair amount of effort to convert it back.

 

[groupdeville]

And me four! You'll also find that the early-style nose requires less work to remove and replace when the inevitable radiator neck leak happens and the radiator has to come out for soldering. The early style nose can come off with the front bumper assembly left undisturbed, versus having to remove bumper components to take off the wide-mouth nose.

 

[TR3driver]

And me four! You'll also find that the early-style nose requires less work to remove and replace when the inevitable radiator neck leak happens and the radiator has to come out for soldering.

I'm hoping I've found the permanent fix for that leak. The radiator shop laid 1/8" soft copper tubing across the joint and soldered it on both sides. Seems to be holding up very well.